FL resize case troubles **Updated**

[Limbic]

I have to FL resize all my brass between firings. The factory 7mmSendero chamber won't have it any other way. I've noticed that the brass just above the belt gets shaved with each resizing (factory Federal brass and W-W). After 5 resizing sessions the brass starts to get a ring .25 of an inch above the belt and I had case actually tear at that point last week. I have no signs of high pressure. I also use Lee FL resize die.

My question is: Is this normal or what do I need to do to keep the brass from over expanding in this area.

If this is too confusing I can get some pics.

 

[btm_54]

Re: FL resize case troubles

I have to FL resize all my brass between firings. The factory 7mmSendero chamber won't have it any other way. I've noticed that the brass just above the belt gets shaved with each resizing (factory Federal brass and W-W). After 5 resizing sessions the brass starts to get a ring .25 of an inch above the belt and I had case actually tear at that point last week. I have no signs of high pressure. I also use Lee FL resize die.

My question is: Is this normal or what do I need to do to keep the brass from over expanding in this area.

If this is too confusing I can get some pics.

The fix for your problem is at
Innovative Technologies
Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment
If you go through larry's website he has the fix for the belt magnum head separation problems.
After using his die my problems ( the same as yours ) went away
Cheers,
btm_54

 

[devildoc]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Well, I'm not gonna try to sell you a better mousetrap like the previous (junior) member.

But, I have a few questions. Why do you "have" to FL resize you brass? I assume that your bolt is difficult/impossible to close if you neck size only.

How are you FL sizing your brass? According to the die manufacturers instructions, or are you measuring your shoulder and bumping back .001-.002"?

What neck sizing die are you using, and what is its history? Did you buy it new?

What loads are you firing? What brass? How many firings are you getting before you're seeing signs of case head separation?

What is the cartridge and history of the rifle you are experiencing this with?

 

[Limbic]

Re: FL resize case troubles

1)Correct. I cannot get the round all the way in the chamber and obviously the bolt won't close.

2)Resizing according to the Lee instruction that came with the Deluxe Rifle Set. I don't know how to check the shoulder and then "bump" it back only 1 or 2 thou.

3)I'm using a brand new set of Lee Deluxe Rifle Die set. 7mm Remington Magnum

4)Loads vary. All are below recommed max.
62g IMR 4831/210M primer/ COAL 3.260 140gr Barnes MRX
65g RL-22/210M/COAL 3.360/ 140g AB
65g RL-22/210M/COAL 3.420/168 VLD

I begin to see signs sometimes after the first resizing and definately after the second.

Brass is W-W and some Federal that came from factory Barnes TSX loads

5)The gun is a new Sendero in 7mmRM. Some stock and trigger work has been done but nothing to the barrel/action.

 

[Limbic]

Re: FL resize case troubles

anybody?

 

[royinidaho]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Ok, here goes.......

What if the chamber is on the large size, not unknown in Rems? And the dies are SAAMI or maybe a bit on the tight side?

Will the fired case go back into the chamber? If not, why? You mentioned that you must FL each firing due to the "factory" chamber.

Did the tearing on the cases that tore occur on one side or all the way around? Pics would help.

Put loaded round on a concentricity measuring device and measure for roundness ahead of the belt, the 0.25" up the case, at the shoulder and on the neck. Everything should be concentric.

Put a fired case on the concentricity measuring device and check for roundness at same points.

Compare the following measurements:
New unfired case diameter at the 0.25" mark
Once fired case at the same point.
Resized case at the same point.

By now something should have revealed itself......

There is no reasonsable reason that a fire case will not rechamber. There is no good reason that you should have to FL each fireing, unless something is not copecetic.

 

[Limbic]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Brass that has been fired twice and only neck sized won't rechamber. It hangs up where the case seperation occurs which is almost at the datum line (just ahead of the belt)

Each time I resize the brass a few thou is shaved off of the brass just above the belt. All the way around the case. The area shaved is probably 1/4" in with.

After reloading and shooting and resizing the brass 4-6 times I can begin to see a thin dent in the brass. This where the seperation occurs. I 'll get some pics of the brass that has been shaved.

I'm going to try and go to the range and do some shooting. Then just resize the neck and get a better idea of why the brass bulging at the base. Start over and see what shakes out.

 

[4xforfun]

Re: FL resize case troubles

1. Do any of the brass fit ever after you fire, but before you resize them. Have you tried to fit an empty back into your gun right after you fired it? Just fire it, eject it, and put back into the chamber.

2. Is the brass "shaved" all the way around after you resize it, or just on two oppisite sides?

Where I am going with this is the chamber may have been reamed out of round right from the start from the factory. I have seen this on two remingtons.

Let us know!!

 

[davewilson]

Re: FL resize case troubles

i would try to put the brass in the chamber the same way it came out after firing. index the base of the case and insert the brass in the chamber. fire it and rechamber without rotating. now rotate the case 90 deg and see if it will chamber. this will tell you if the chamber is out of round.

if the brass won't rechamber after firing, i would have the headspace checked. if that's OK, i would contact Remington as you might have a weak receiver/ bolt/ lugs which will allow the brass to grow upon firing because it gives when the pressure is on it, then pops back to original position making the case tight in the chamber.

as for the shaving the brass, sounds like you might have a sharp edge in the die.

 

[jwp475]

Re: FL resize case troubles

I'm betting on the out of round chamber

 

[eaglesnester]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Sounds like a chamber problem to me, a belted magnum collet resizing die from innovative technology may or may not help you. There is one thing I would do and that is take the rifle to a GOOD MASTER GUNSMITH and have the chamber slugged with creosafe so it can be determined if it is out or in SAMMI spec.

 

[Limbic]

Re: FL resize case troubles

I'll try and slip off to the range tomorrow and check the out of round chamber theory. I don't know if the out of round chamber would affect accuracy. The gun is a pretty steady sub MOA shooter (except those Berger. Haven't got them figured out yet; at least not consistently.).

Like I had stated the shaving is around the entire circumfrence and the new brass works fine. It works after the first time I neck size only. After that it is too large in the rear.

We'll see what tomorrow holds.

As an afterthought I did find that the other day one of the cases was hard to remove after it sat in the chamber for 10min. I shot a round. Went to the truck and made a phone call. when I returned and worked the bolt it was a bit stiffer than I expected. would this help the weak reciever theory.

I'd also like to get a krieger #5 or 6 barrel. Do you think they could fix whatever ails me?

 

[Limbic]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Well I've got some new tools in. Precision Mic shows that the headspace is -.004. I measured some of the brass and the brass that is harder to get in the chamber is .002 larger at the belt and at 3/10 of an inch above it. Maybe weak bolt/lug is allowing the end of the brass to over expand?

 

[woods]

Re: FL resize case troubles

Well, I would investigate 2 possible problems.

Case head separations are caused by there being too much of a gap between the case shoulder and the chamber shoulder. It is not defined as headspace since belted magnums headspace on the belt until the case has expanded enough so that you can then headspace on the shoulder. If you have a large gap on new cases then that would cause a lot of stretching at the web where the case body goes to being unsupported

When you fire the load, the firing pin slams the case forward, the case body expands and grips the walls, the pressure forces the case body back to the bolt face and the case thins at the pressure ring/web. A large gap at the shoulder is not uncommon and I have measured as much as .030". That is a problem with undersize brass as much as it is with oversize chamber.

When you Full Length Resize and push the shoulder back more than absolutely necessary then the thinning will happen every time you fire that case. As the brass becomes thinner there it will expand more readily and springback less. It would be good to know how much that clearance measures between the NEW case shoulder and the chamber shoulder.

The other thing is that in the few Remingtons I have reloaded for (7) the chambers have all been large enough so that it was a chore to size the fired case body in the die (normally Redding Body Dies) and there was a lot of scraping going on. This is not a problem in itself. Remingtons also tend to have a short shoulder and a long throat on an average IME but all are good shooters.

IMO, if you are having case head separation problems then you have a sizing problem.