If you could design your own ELR class what would you teach?
ELR What would you teach?
- Thread starter Terry Balding
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To even have a chance at ELR, people need to be brilliant in the basics first. People need a solid shooting platform, quality rifle and optics especially. If they can hold a consistent sub moa group at close ranges, then they can start moving the distance and pushing the line. So, in my opinion, it all depends on your target audience; are you teaching people with strong skills already, or people that are beginners but want to go ELR? Based on that it would determine what I would teach.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I would start with achieving low SDs and ES thru advanced loading practices.
milo-2
Well-Known Member
What do you consider ELR, what range?
There was a guy who kicked some serious butt at a 2K match with a Savage rifle, he had things covered, lol.
First I would say solid gear, rifle, range finder<big, your range finder is YOUR ruler, not someone else's or surveyed targets, optics.
2nd would be the importance of solid handloading techniques. Does no good to shoot at a 24" square at 2K if you have 3ft of vertical dispersion.
3rd, understanding terrain and winds associated with said is a must.
Once 1 & 2 are conquered, number 3 rules.
Nothing compares to experience though, rds down range in all conditions. But it can be costly, maybe even improbable also. I am sure we all recall our first attempt at 1K, probably a little wishing going on, maybe a hail mary too. But we all did it and now it is a walk in the park, most places we go.
There was a guy who kicked some serious butt at a 2K match with a Savage rifle, he had things covered, lol.
First I would say solid gear, rifle, range finder<big, your range finder is YOUR ruler, not someone else's or surveyed targets, optics.
2nd would be the importance of solid handloading techniques. Does no good to shoot at a 24" square at 2K if you have 3ft of vertical dispersion.
3rd, understanding terrain and winds associated with said is a must.
Once 1 & 2 are conquered, number 3 rules.
Nothing compares to experience though, rds down range in all conditions. But it can be costly, maybe even improbable also. I am sure we all recall our first attempt at 1K, probably a little wishing going on, maybe a hail mary too. But we all did it and now it is a walk in the park, most places we go.
Jeff Heeg osoh
Well-Known Member
You actually start with the basics, so many folks are missing on the small things that add up at the end of the day and then you take it to the advanced levels that will be beyond some understandings, very educational for the experienced but yet everyone will take from it.
Its everything, rifle setup, understanding the scope and really knowing how to calibrate it, load preparation and development, using and truly understanding ballistic programs then onto shooter platform and communications within the team.
Something that has been mastered, experienced and proven that can be duplicated under any condition and under a time restraint when the crew and shooter is under pressure.
This is my opinion on this subject when ELR training comes up.
Cheers
Iamosoh
Its everything, rifle setup, understanding the scope and really knowing how to calibrate it, load preparation and development, using and truly understanding ballistic programs then onto shooter platform and communications within the team.
Something that has been mastered, experienced and proven that can be duplicated under any condition and under a time restraint when the crew and shooter is under pressure.
This is my opinion on this subject when ELR training comes up.
Cheers
Iamosoh
rooster740
Well-Known Member
Wind!
Shifty wind!
Thermals!
Storm front wind that will change 180 degrees over a short period of time as that black cloud passes wind!
Shifty wind!
Thermals!
Storm front wind that will change 180 degrees over a short period of time as that black cloud passes wind!
TwistedFox
Well-Known Member
I personally would start the class explaining elr is not what is elr for my experience level or caliber or cartridge or build so if your under those assumptions perhaps your in the wrong class. 2nd I would explain elr is about advancing the sport not hindering it threw inclusions so if your going to complete in elr the very bottom entry level cartridge and caliber is a 338 lapua. After that introduction with the remaining students (LOL ) would need to start on basic ballistic theory. And false mis conceptions. Then go into equipment selection. A short segment of the class would be on quality build topic caliber and cartridge selection. And so on....
ELR means different things to different folks, however, most agree with standard calibers it would be beyond 1000yds.
However, the fundamentals are extremely important, if you can't shoot well at 50yds & 100yds then go back and practice until you are consistently shooting under 1inch at 100 yards.
There are so many aids these days, high bc bullets/ammo, ballistic apps, rangefinders, Kestrels, and so on...
Really what's needed at the core is a knowledge of your skill and your rifle setup.
Much is preference in what gear you use but you have to know that gear.
Make the rifle fit you, not the other way around.
I know men who know old rifles and can outshoot guys with 1/4-1/2 MOA rifles at distance...
Why?
Because a 1/4 MOA rifle with someone who lacks wind reading skills can easily become a 5 MOA at distance.
Learn to read the wind as best you can.
Be confident but not overconfident, the wrong attitude will end your day of shooting really quick.
And have fun, it's not worth it if it's a chore.
Lastly, it is highly preferred that you find a good spotter because we will all miss.
www.riflesonly.com
However, the fundamentals are extremely important, if you can't shoot well at 50yds & 100yds then go back and practice until you are consistently shooting under 1inch at 100 yards.
There are so many aids these days, high bc bullets/ammo, ballistic apps, rangefinders, Kestrels, and so on...
Really what's needed at the core is a knowledge of your skill and your rifle setup.
Much is preference in what gear you use but you have to know that gear.
Make the rifle fit you, not the other way around.
I know men who know old rifles and can outshoot guys with 1/4-1/2 MOA rifles at distance...
Why?
Because a 1/4 MOA rifle with someone who lacks wind reading skills can easily become a 5 MOA at distance.
Learn to read the wind as best you can.
Be confident but not overconfident, the wrong attitude will end your day of shooting really quick.
And have fun, it's not worth it if it's a chore.
Lastly, it is highly preferred that you find a good spotter because we will all miss.
shooting fundamentals
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/52182770" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> This is an instructional video that features Jacob Bynum, Rifles Only's Chief Instructor, goin
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TwistedFox
Well-Known Member
Elr starts at 1500 yards and goes out to 3000 plus yards so a caliber or cartridge that is not capable of going to the furthest extent of the match consistantly its not a elr cartridge as defined in a elr match scenario as defined by the industry and elr central and elr organizations. But the rest of your information is good.ELR means different things to different folks, however, most agree with standard calibers it would be beyond 1000yds.
However, the fundamentals are extremely important, if you can't shoot well at 50yds & 100yds then go back and practice until you are consistently shooting under 1inch at 100 yards.
There are so many aids these days, high bc bullets/ammo, ballistic apps, rangefinders, Kestrels, and so on...
Really what's needed at the core is a knowledge of your skill and your rifle setup.
Much is preference in what gear you use but you have to know that gear.
Make the rifle fit you, not the other way around.
I know men who know old rifles and can outshoot guys with 1/4-1/2 MOA rifles at distance...
Why?
Because a 1/4 MOA rifle with someone who lacks wind reading skills can easily become a 5 MOA at distance.
Learn to read the wind as best you can.
Be confident but not overconfident, the wrong attitude will end your day of shooting really quick.
And have fun, it's not worth it if it's a chore.
Lastly, it is highly preferred that you find a good spotter because we will all miss.
shooting fundamentals
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/52182770" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> This is an instructional video that features Jacob Bynum, Rifles Only's Chief Instructor, goin
I appreciate your comment, yet I believe it is determined by caliber.
ELR for a 6.5 PRC or 300 WM is far different than a 22lr hangun at 500 yards, right?
I've see Jerry Miculek shoot a popper target at 1000 yards with a 9mm handgun, that to me is ELR without a doubt...
Still, when using modern high bc bullets in match guns, well ELR is absolutely 1500yds as you have explained.
Some think it is when your bullet goes transonic, that could be the best way to define ELR for a specific caliber/shooting style?...
TwistedFox
Well-Known Member
The most commonly accepted and cultivated term ELR has been recognized as match settings
There are many cartridges that
Never reach transonic or even subsonic within the confines of a match to Simply state that any cartridge reaching transonic distances is ELR does not fit the definition ELR. The problem is is everyone wants to be recognized as shooting ELR based on their ability or the ability of the cartridge or caliber.. That may apply or sound good but it's not the same because ELR by the industry has been defined as 1500 yards plus not out to or up to or close to 1500 yards I clearly accept and appreciate the idea of shooting a 22 long rifle past 500 or a 9 mm to 1000 yards Creedmoor to 1700 yards as extreme long range for that cartridge. To say that I
F open or FTR but yet I have never attended one of those matches is false. To say I shoot FTR or the 300 Win Mag is false information because FTR is a match shooting 308 to say I shoot F open what they 375 CheyTac is also not correct because FTR is limited two under Point 358 caliber so with that to say that you shoot ELR or the 6-5 Creedmoor does not fit the parameters of the ELR competition currently the industry has accepted ELR 22 rimfire matches and 338 through 50 caliber
There are many cartridges that
Never reach transonic or even subsonic within the confines of a match to Simply state that any cartridge reaching transonic distances is ELR does not fit the definition ELR. The problem is is everyone wants to be recognized as shooting ELR based on their ability or the ability of the cartridge or caliber.. That may apply or sound good but it's not the same because ELR by the industry has been defined as 1500 yards plus not out to or up to or close to 1500 yards I clearly accept and appreciate the idea of shooting a 22 long rifle past 500 or a 9 mm to 1000 yards Creedmoor to 1700 yards as extreme long range for that cartridge. To say that I
F open or FTR but yet I have never attended one of those matches is false. To say I shoot FTR or the 300 Win Mag is false information because FTR is a match shooting 308 to say I shoot F open what they 375 CheyTac is also not correct because FTR is limited two under Point 358 caliber so with that to say that you shoot ELR or the 6-5 Creedmoor does not fit the parameters of the ELR competition currently the industry has accepted ELR 22 rimfire matches and 338 through 50 caliber
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I get what you are saying, and even before posting my comment, understood that 22lr and similar cartridges are most commonly subsonic...
I've heard Todd Hodnett explain, talk about the term ELR before.
Everyone seems to have their own opinions, however, I go by the caliber more than distance, and I regularly shoot ELR with match guns.
Still, I find that the same skills that make me successful at long range are equally, if not more important shooting less stable cartridges a bit closer.
I believe soon if not already, 1500yds will just be long range.
As I've posted before, The King Of 2 Mile is where ELR is going or at right now...
to start with patience and consistancy
TwistedFox
Well-Known Member
What ELR is and is not. What calibers and cartridges are considered ELR. Basic fundamentals in shooting including load development best practices and rifle build quality. Then would go into basic ballistics and misunderstanding. Then we move on to Forum and best practices. Then would go into fundamentals and reading wind. Then follow up with actual Trigger Time
