backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
Thanks. That is the kind of first hand info I was looking for.
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Elk lost with 208 AMAX?
- Thread starter backyardsniper
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I shot a cow last month with my 6.5-300wm using 140gr Amax's at 3225fps. She was about 125yds and dropped at the shot and died very quickly. She was quartering towards me and I shot her in the chest. The lungs were mush. I also finished off my dads with the same gun. I wouldn't be afraid to use a 208 on elk. My buddy has killed 2 moose with Amax's as well (178gr from .308 and 162 from .284 win.) and both died very quickly.
backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
I've got 1000 of the 178's as well but i planned on using the 208 for the above stated reasons about keeping the velocity down. I figured at extreme velocity there would be a risk of fragging early but you run that risk with any rapid expansion type bullet. I will most likely have my 308 with me as a back up gun. I run the same load one of the above links mentioned 178 amax with 44.5gr of varget. I find it interesting I heard a lot of nay saying when i mentioned using the 208 on elk but In all the internet researching I've done I have not seen one first hand story of "I shot an elk with a 208 amax and it ran off with no blood trail and we never found it". Now, I'm sure that has happened. It happens every hunting season with every kind of bullet. However, If these bullets were failing on a regular basis then I think there would be a lot of stories out there about it and there would be a LOT more first hand accounts.
Thanks for the input so far guys. I feel very confident in using this bullet now. I plan to use it again this whitetail season here in KY and I will keep a close eye on how it performs but from what i have seen in the past and the stories I'm getting now I think I will stick with this bullet.
Thanks for the input so far guys. I feel very confident in using this bullet now. I plan to use it again this whitetail season here in KY and I will keep a close eye on how it performs but from what i have seen in the past and the stories I'm getting now I think I will stick with this bullet.
mtwarych
Well-Known Member
Sir,
Are you going to hunt with a guide? If so, ask your guide what range the most likely shot would be. Plan from here. Good luck on your hunt. JW
Are you going to hunt with a guide? If so, ask your guide what range the most likely shot would be. Plan from here. Good luck on your hunt. JW
I haven't shot elk with the 300 Win and 208 Amax's so I get that out up front. But I do have quite a bit of experience with Amax's that may be helpful. You shoot them too so this may be stuff you already know but just in case.
Cup and core bullets like the Amax aren't for guys that like to shoot at any animal they see at any angle. They harken back to the good 'ol days of hunting when guys actually took the time to wait for a good shot before firing away at an animal.
If there is a negative side to all the premium bullets out today I would say that is it, guys end up taking marginal shots on animals hoping the bullet will make up for the other shortcomings they are introducing to the shot.
So, if you wait for a good shot, and stay away from the point of the shoulder you will find much, much more success with Amax's, even on elk. Slightly quartering to or away are fine but I don't go much past that because with severely quartering shots you introduce too much rib bone and tough hide at bad angles and increase the distance the bullet must travel to get to the vitals. All of that simply reduces your chance for a clean kill with any bullet let alone with frangible ones.
Talking hunting bullets is an interesting thing. Guys run to a specific brand of bullets and swear they have been created with magic pixie dust when in fact they are very simple tools. Some of which have been around for a very long time. Berger is a good example. They no doubt have some specific design characteristics but for the most part they are an old style cup and core bullet which is the kind of bullet that has been used for decades. They choose that kind of bullet because they are the most accurate and they found out, quite by accident I think, that their bullets works very well on game when used correctly. Interestingly, the Hornady BTHP performs very similar to Bergers on game mostly due to the meplat design and how it delays expansion slightly before blowing up like a grenade. Me personally, I like that kind of bullet. For the game I hunt in North America I don't need a solid bullet getting pass through penetration at extreme angles. I want to anchor them where they stand if I can. So the Amax's will do that. The plastic tip on the front opens the bullet up faster than the HP's so you have to keep that in mind. Heavy for caliber bullets like the 208 Amax are the way to go for elk IMO as the extra weight ensures as much penetration as possible with that bullet. I have seen elk taken with lighter weight Amax's but the safe bet in my opinion is the heavier stuff. You have the cartridge to shoot them so no big deal for you anyway.
The biggest issue you will face is close up shots. There are far more examples of Amax failure up close than at medium to LR distances. Again, the extra weight of the 208 will help with this. Just a thought, the Hornady BTSP's or Interbonds shoot very close to same POI of the Amax's in most guns out to 300 yards or so. I often times carry two loads for this exact reason.
At LR is where the Amax bullets shine IMO. They are every bit as accurate as any bullet out there in my experience. And you can expect good expansion at velocities well below other bullets at LR, much lower than what Berger states at 1800 fps. Many guys want a bit more velocity than that to be safe.
I have killed and seen a ton of deer taken with Amax's and quite a few elk too. But again, good shots were taken which is a big deal to success in this guys opinion.
Good luck on your hunt and your decision on bullet choice.
Scot E.
Cup and core bullets like the Amax aren't for guys that like to shoot at any animal they see at any angle. They harken back to the good 'ol days of hunting when guys actually took the time to wait for a good shot before firing away at an animal.
If there is a negative side to all the premium bullets out today I would say that is it, guys end up taking marginal shots on animals hoping the bullet will make up for the other shortcomings they are introducing to the shot. So, if you wait for a good shot, and stay away from the point of the shoulder you will find much, much more success with Amax's, even on elk. Slightly quartering to or away are fine but I don't go much past that because with severely quartering shots you introduce too much rib bone and tough hide at bad angles and increase the distance the bullet must travel to get to the vitals. All of that simply reduces your chance for a clean kill with any bullet let alone with frangible ones.
Talking hunting bullets is an interesting thing. Guys run to a specific brand of bullets and swear they have been created with magic pixie dust when in fact they are very simple tools. Some of which have been around for a very long time. Berger is a good example. They no doubt have some specific design characteristics but for the most part they are an old style cup and core bullet which is the kind of bullet that has been used for decades. They choose that kind of bullet because they are the most accurate and they found out, quite by accident I think, that their bullets works very well on game when used correctly. Interestingly, the Hornady BTHP performs very similar to Bergers on game mostly due to the meplat design and how it delays expansion slightly before blowing up like a grenade. Me personally, I like that kind of bullet. For the game I hunt in North America I don't need a solid bullet getting pass through penetration at extreme angles. I want to anchor them where they stand if I can. So the Amax's will do that. The plastic tip on the front opens the bullet up faster than the HP's so you have to keep that in mind. Heavy for caliber bullets like the 208 Amax are the way to go for elk IMO as the extra weight ensures as much penetration as possible with that bullet. I have seen elk taken with lighter weight Amax's but the safe bet in my opinion is the heavier stuff. You have the cartridge to shoot them so no big deal for you anyway.
The biggest issue you will face is close up shots. There are far more examples of Amax failure up close than at medium to LR distances. Again, the extra weight of the 208 will help with this. Just a thought, the Hornady BTSP's or Interbonds shoot very close to same POI of the Amax's in most guns out to 300 yards or so. I often times carry two loads for this exact reason.
At LR is where the Amax bullets shine IMO. They are every bit as accurate as any bullet out there in my experience. And you can expect good expansion at velocities well below other bullets at LR, much lower than what Berger states at 1800 fps. Many guys want a bit more velocity than that to be safe.
I have killed and seen a ton of deer taken with Amax's and quite a few elk too. But again, good shots were taken which is a big deal to success in this guys opinion.
Good luck on your hunt and your decision on bullet choice.
Scot E.
backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
Scot,
Thanks for the reply. That is indeed some useful information. A lot of it I already knew or heavily speculated on. I also had been thinking very heavily on carrying two loads, the close shot is what worried me. Also, as you mentioned waiting for proper angle especially with highly frangible bullets is very important. You have helped to back up a lot of the thoughts I had on this subject. Like you I have had great success with them on whitetail, but have just never tested their metal if you will on anything larger and heavier. I run a detachable magazine on my rifle so running two different rounds will be simple. I will probably run an accubond or some form of heavier bonded bullet for my 200yd and closer load and keep a magazine of amax for the opportunity for longer shooting if I can get another bullet to shoot very close to the same point of impact as the amax.
Thanks for the reply. That is indeed some useful information. A lot of it I already knew or heavily speculated on. I also had been thinking very heavily on carrying two loads, the close shot is what worried me. Also, as you mentioned waiting for proper angle especially with highly frangible bullets is very important. You have helped to back up a lot of the thoughts I had on this subject. Like you I have had great success with them on whitetail, but have just never tested their metal if you will on anything larger and heavier. I run a detachable magazine on my rifle so running two different rounds will be simple. I will probably run an accubond or some form of heavier bonded bullet for my 200yd and closer load and keep a magazine of amax for the opportunity for longer shooting if I can get another bullet to shoot very close to the same point of impact as the amax.
backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
Also like you said I have had great luck with the BTHP type bullets. I prefer the nosler custom comp 175's in my 308. They perform very well on game
mtwarych
Well-Known Member
Please take into consideration the possibility of 2 to 3 inches of wet or muddy hide. Once again, good luck on your elk hunt.
I've never seen a elk with 2-3" of hide and I've killed 30+. They have thick skin compared to deer but it still is no more than 1/2" thick with the hair in most spots on a elk (the vitals).
backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
Edited for bad language by Len
Last edited by a moderator:
mtwarych
Well-Known Member
I am sorry for my post. I have seen elk with mud, snow and other stinky stuff matted on their coats. I have seen 2" of ice explode off the side of an animal while spotting a shot for a friend. I did not realize that WY elk were so much different than MT elk. I wonder why the OP would be asking about elk lost with a 208 amax? Doubts? Well, in any case, good luck with your hunt. I bow out. Semper Fi.
backyardsniper
Well-Known Member
My bad man. Just poking you a little bit. That might have been a little harsh, I see you only have a few posts on here and that wan't a very warm welcome. I apologize, I do see where you're coming from and I can see in extreme cold temps where a wet and muddy elk could have an extra layer of "armor" to have to worry about your bullet opening up early on. Don't take any offense and feel free to post on my threads anytime. I'm always open to any helpful information that anyone has to give.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
BYS, I've not shot Elk with them but I did shoot a couple of big hogs with them.
I've put literally thousands of Hornady bullets into game over the last thirty years or so and up and down the line they have performed very well for me.
On the big hogs, the AMAX is a no go for me. Way too fragile a bullet.
On deer I've had some good results as long as they don't hit bone. If you slip them through behind the shoulder or straight through the pipe they'll be fine for you.
I would however say if I were in your shoes and wanted to stick with Hornady bullets for this hunt I'd use the 180gr Interbond, or 190gr Interlock.
They fly right and will punch bone with the best of them.
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Backyardsniper, I had to edit your language, please watch it!
