Done Trimming Brass!

DoneNOut

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Mar 2, 2020
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Location
Kangaroo Court
308 Winchestershire
IMG_8963.jpeg

Max trim length: 2.015
Min trim length: 2.005

Took a peek with the scope. The fully seated in chamber, fired case, is 2.016 OAL.

Yellow arrow: Start of throat.
Red arrow: Chamfer ring of brass .030" wide
Green arrow: The space could be .070" wide. Fitting 2.25 of those .030" chamfer widths!
 
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This is why I make a chamber length gauge for each of my rifles. It allows me to know what my trim length actually needs to be.
 
I've been telling people for years to quit compulsively trimming their brass. Can't put metal back when you cut it off.

Trimming in general is usually a waste of time, but trimming new brass is probably the most short-sighted thing people do in reloading, it's literally introducing a variance on top of the manufacturing variances into your cases you'll have to correct for later.

Think it through - if you measure shoulders of new, unfired brass and they aren't all the same that means when they're fired the cases will move differently resulting in cases of differing length. So if you cut cases with varied shoulder lengths to a consistent neck length (trimming from shoulder) or consistent case length (LE Wilson trimmer), the ending case lengths will absolutely be different after firing.

The difference between trimming and not trimming is that while cases will end up being different lengths either way, if you don't trim most/all cases (depending on how you sort to trim the first time) then after firing your cases will be longer than if you did trim the first time, leaving you more length to work with.

But the "I have to make them ALL IDENTICAL" crowd chimes in and can't handle that yes, cases will be different lengths until you stabilize the case shoulders, then start trimming the brass....... but still only if needed. If the cases are shorter than the chamber, leave them alone until they need to be trimmed for max chamber length.

Y'all try it sometime. Funny how my 6.5-284 shoots in the .100s and .200s off the bench with dirty nasty unprocessed brass that has never been trimmed (or cleaned for that matter, but that's for another post 🤣). Current batch is 5x fired and still not to max chamber length. Shoulders only started bumping on the 4th firing. Brass is like a garden, let it grow!

My 243 AI went 14 firings without needing to be trimmed, because the brass is still short of my actual chamber length plus my trim margin. The Sinclair tools give actual, measurable, and repeatable results are are very useful if anyone doubts their ability to just look at it with a bore scope (which is what I normally do, at least until they're close).

One big caveat is that I DO MEASURE chamber lengths, I don't just leave it be and pray nothing bad happens. If you don't want to do the work to check, please keep trimming compulsively. Better to be safe than crimp a case. 30-06 has been the worst for me in terms of actually hitting the end of the chamber, in only 2-3 firings sometimes.
 
70thou chamber end clearance is extreme.
It is a nice picture
I was mistaken on that. When I closed the bolt on the case it moved about .030.

IMG_8968.jpeg


So the line between the lighter & darker shade of the carbon ring🤣 Still .040 ish away.
This is with a case 2.021 long with a shoulder 1.623 short. (Extreme example purposes)
 
If +/-0.002" is a reasonable tolerance for trimmed length of brass (straight from the Giraud manual, btw, their words), then 0.010" short is a good spec to work off of. Following the same logic of "book trim length" being 0.010" shorter than the theoretical chamber end based on a spec reamer.

If you're really good with a machine or anal doing it by hand and can get +/-0.0005" (again, Giraud says you can do it, 'all within 0.001"'), 0.005" off the end works.

Don't be shocked with you end up well over (0.020"-0.040") what the "book" says you should be at. Trust the tools and measurements.
 
Don't find a thread very often where I learn this much. I seldom trim brass, almost forget to measure sometimes since I usually just touch the shoulder back .002 and never FL resize.

But this is useful. I might be cutting valuable neck off my older cases when I finally decide to trim them. Looks like the gauges only require one sacrificial cartridge. Good use for a light or heavy outlier after first firing. I often lean on the heavy or light cases to break a barrel in, so really no loss. Establish a max case length, aim for a nice conservative .05 shorter and be done.

As for cutting it closer -- remember what happens to pressures when you chamber a loaded cartridge where the brass is too long. Auto crimp of the bullet by the now compressed neck, which CANNOT expand upon firing. Rather not go there......
 
If +/-0.002" is a reasonable tolerance for trimmed length of brass (straight from the Giraud manual, btw, their words), then 0.010" short is a good spec to work off of. Following the same logic of "book trim length" being 0.010" shorter than the theoretical chamber end based on a spec reamer.

If you're really good with a machine or anal doing it by hand and can get +/-0.0005" (again, Giraud says you can do it, 'all within 0.001"'), 0.005" off the end works.

Don't be shocked with you end up well over (0.020"-0.040") what the "book" says you should be at. Trust the tools and measurements.
I think I wouldn't mind having just .003-005 from the case neck to leave no room for carbon ring. Still thinking on this…
 
As for cutting it closer -- remember what happens to pressures when you chamber a loaded cartridge where the brass is too long. Auto crimp of the bullet by the now compressed neck, which CANNOT expand upon firing. Rather not go there......
Your choice should also include your level of control. 5 to 10thou off chamber end should be easy enough for any bolt action.
When I fill out a reamer print I put chamber end 5thou off new brass OAL. On fire forming the necks pull back to increase that clearance a bit.
Because I don't FL size, I usually never need to trim.

One thing I do by habit, that I was taught around ~48yrs ago, is to glance at fired case mouths.
Any shiny spots/flats, time to check trim length.
This was demonstrated to me then, and I've seen it with cases in a range bucket, but I've never seen it with my brass.
 
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Your choice should also include your level of control. 5 to 10thou off chamber end should be easy enough for any bolt action.
When I fill out a reamer print I put chamber end 5thou off new bass OAL. On fire forming the necks pull back to increase that clearance a bit.
Because I don't FL size, I usually never need to trim.

One thing I do by habit, that I was taught around ~48yrs ago, is to glance at fired case mouths.
Any shiny spots/flats, time to check trim length.
This was demonstrated to me then, and I've seen it with cases in a range bucket, but I've never seen it with my brass.
Excellent suggestion.
 
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