can glass bedding benefit pillar bedded rifle?
- Thread starter manhoer
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
If shooting very well is acceptable why mess with it?
If not, skim bedding, if done properly, should not make it shoot any worse.
Most bedding jobs on custom rifles is both pillar and skim bedded.
If not, skim bedding, if done properly, should not make it shoot any worse.
Most bedding jobs on custom rifles is both pillar and skim bedded.
specweldtom
Well-Known Member
I think that of the 2 processes, full glass bedding is the most consistent accuracy improver, but pillar blocks are very good for stability, and prevent slow crushing on any type of stock and so they also help improve consistency. To me, they go together.
Bottom line, If you can't do pillars, glass bed. If you can do pillars, glass bed on top of them.
Just my opinion, Tom
Bottom line, If you can't do pillars, glass bed. If you can do pillars, glass bed on top of them.
Just my opinion, Tom
prtaylor
Well-Known Member
+1. Bed the action
coyotezapper
Well-Known Member
NesikaChad
Well-Known Member
From another forum I loiter in:
Maybe this will answer some of your questions. My screen name on S/H is C. Dixon. Just look for the Ronald Reagan (THE MAN!) avatar.
Hope this helps with your questions.
Bedding Action ?? - Sniper's Hide Forums
Maybe this will answer some of your questions. My screen name on S/H is C. Dixon. Just look for the Ronald Reagan (THE MAN!) avatar.
Hope this helps with your questions.
Bedding Action ?? - Sniper's Hide Forums
Halfdoc
Well-Known Member
interesting
Fitch
Well-Known Member
Chad, that was an excellent write up on Shiper's Hide. Thanks for the link to it.
I will probably never duplicate that level of perfection, but the bedding job below was done with commonly available stuff. I used Devcon 10110, Kiwi shoe polish, etc. I do have a mill and used that together with a round sanding block to hog out the stock, and I made my own rear pillar from steel rod purchased at Home Despot, but this is a non-provessional DIY bedding job in a BVSS which is what the original poster was asking about (a 112 long action BVSS in 7mag).
I read your mixing strategy with some interest because I discovered two air bubbles in the material when I trimmed it in the mill, they are visible in the picture. I'm going to try the thin layer mixing strategy you describe next time to see if that helps. My buddy uses a vacuume machine (purchased at a school surplus sale) to degas epoxy and eliminate air bubbles when he makes castings, but my concern is that it will reduce the working time more than I'd like. I may try it anyway one of these times.
This (the 6th) looks much better than my first couple of bedding jobs. I'm still learning a lot with each one, but they are at least looking a bit better and shooting better.
Possibly of use to the original poster: The tang that holds the magazine box in place (in most savages and in the BVSS for sure) extends back over the rear pillar. Leaving the magazine box in the rifle while bedding it and leaving that tang in the load path for the rear action screw isn't a good idea. What I did was to make a new rear pillar that was a copy of the original but longer than the original by the tang thickness plus .010". I added a .010" shim washer on top of the original front pillar. I removed the front pillar, cleaned the finish out of the hole and epoxied it in place. Then I epoxied the new rear pillar in. After making sure the receiver touched nothing but the tops of the pillars and all was properly aligned, I went ahead and bedded the rifle using some alignment studs that are 19/64" in diameter to center the action screws in the "N" drill holes in the pillars.
During trimming I milled the notch in the picture into the epoxy and trimmed the tang to fit (with a hacksaw and file) so that it is restrained to the space but not "clamped" by the receiver and the stock. I adjusted the little pushed out tang, that's invisible in this picture, so that the magazine box just "snaps" in place as shown. The rifle loads and feeds beautifully using this approach.
I also milled a notch for clearance of the alignment pin on the recoil lug which is where the air bubble on the right was discovered. There is some stamped lettering on the bottom of the receiver that will "print" in the epoxy. I carefully work that out of the epoxy after it is cured so it isn't touching using a very fine die makers riffler file (shaped like a finger with very fine teeth). There is a lot of contact area so having those couple of spots at less than contact isn't going to hurt anything.
The proof of the pudding is in consistant smaller than 1/2 MOA groups with two different bullets (150g TTSX and 180 Berger), which is closer to minute of ground hog than minute of mountain, definitely smaller than minute of deer, way less than minute of mountain range (loved that expression), and load development is just starting.
Fitch
I will probably never duplicate that level of perfection, but the bedding job below was done with commonly available stuff. I used Devcon 10110, Kiwi shoe polish, etc. I do have a mill and used that together with a round sanding block to hog out the stock, and I made my own rear pillar from steel rod purchased at Home Despot, but this is a non-provessional DIY bedding job in a BVSS which is what the original poster was asking about (a 112 long action BVSS in 7mag).
I read your mixing strategy with some interest because I discovered two air bubbles in the material when I trimmed it in the mill, they are visible in the picture. I'm going to try the thin layer mixing strategy you describe next time to see if that helps. My buddy uses a vacuume machine (purchased at a school surplus sale) to degas epoxy and eliminate air bubbles when he makes castings, but my concern is that it will reduce the working time more than I'd like. I may try it anyway one of these times.
This (the 6th) looks much better than my first couple of bedding jobs. I'm still learning a lot with each one, but they are at least looking a bit better and shooting better.
Possibly of use to the original poster: The tang that holds the magazine box in place (in most savages and in the BVSS for sure) extends back over the rear pillar. Leaving the magazine box in the rifle while bedding it and leaving that tang in the load path for the rear action screw isn't a good idea. What I did was to make a new rear pillar that was a copy of the original but longer than the original by the tang thickness plus .010". I added a .010" shim washer on top of the original front pillar. I removed the front pillar, cleaned the finish out of the hole and epoxied it in place. Then I epoxied the new rear pillar in. After making sure the receiver touched nothing but the tops of the pillars and all was properly aligned, I went ahead and bedded the rifle using some alignment studs that are 19/64" in diameter to center the action screws in the "N" drill holes in the pillars.
During trimming I milled the notch in the picture into the epoxy and trimmed the tang to fit (with a hacksaw and file) so that it is restrained to the space but not "clamped" by the receiver and the stock. I adjusted the little pushed out tang, that's invisible in this picture, so that the magazine box just "snaps" in place as shown. The rifle loads and feeds beautifully using this approach.
I also milled a notch for clearance of the alignment pin on the recoil lug which is where the air bubble on the right was discovered. There is some stamped lettering on the bottom of the receiver that will "print" in the epoxy. I carefully work that out of the epoxy after it is cured so it isn't touching using a very fine die makers riffler file (shaped like a finger with very fine teeth). There is a lot of contact area so having those couple of spots at less than contact isn't going to hurt anything.
The proof of the pudding is in consistant smaller than 1/2 MOA groups with two different bullets (150g TTSX and 180 Berger), which is closer to minute of ground hog than minute of mountain, definitely smaller than minute of deer, way less than minute of mountain range (loved that expression), and load development is just starting.
Fitch
specweldtom
Well-Known Member
Fitch, I also appreciated Chad's link. I have to add that my bedding jobs don't look like his either, but about 2 years ago, I started mixing (SteelBed) on a scrap piece of 1/8" aluminum sheet metal. I just spread and fold (carefully) until I'm satisfied it's mixed. It stopped the air pockets in the hardened bedding. After I'm done, I rake the plate and let the excess harden, then put it on the 6" belt sander and clean it so-so. Been using the same piece of metal over and over.
The SteelBed has a good pot life, so it gives me time to poke and prod all I want to. a half-hard set comes in about 4-6 hours unless I put it in the sun, then 2-3 hrs. I test the glob that I raked off the plate to gauge how the batch is curing. Full cure in about 7 days. Once cured, it has to be sanded, ground, or filed. Too hard to cut with a knife.
I used to do match conditioning on Garands and M1A's, and used modeling clay to blank off holes, notches, slots, etc. Pretty dicey. I'm going to order some of the stuff that Chad uses. Looks much safer than the modeling clay.
I use Birchwood Casey stock wax for a release agent and rub it on with my fingers until I can't see it. Leaves an extremely thin layer and makes the actions/barrels fit very tight after clean-up. I hold my breath until I hear that click when they turn loose.
The best part of a bedding job for me is when I break out the action and get a look at the job. I've done quite a few, and I still don't know for sure what they'll look like until I see them.
Good thread Manhoer. Tom
The SteelBed has a good pot life, so it gives me time to poke and prod all I want to. a half-hard set comes in about 4-6 hours unless I put it in the sun, then 2-3 hrs. I test the glob that I raked off the plate to gauge how the batch is curing. Full cure in about 7 days. Once cured, it has to be sanded, ground, or filed. Too hard to cut with a knife.
I used to do match conditioning on Garands and M1A's, and used modeling clay to blank off holes, notches, slots, etc. Pretty dicey. I'm going to order some of the stuff that Chad uses. Looks much safer than the modeling clay.
I use Birchwood Casey stock wax for a release agent and rub it on with my fingers until I can't see it. Leaves an extremely thin layer and makes the actions/barrels fit very tight after clean-up. I hold my breath until I hear that click when they turn loose.
The best part of a bedding job for me is when I break out the action and get a look at the job. I've done quite a few, and I still don't know for sure what they'll look like until I see them.
Good thread Manhoer. Tom
Fitch
Well-Known Member
dropping the receiver to the top of the stock rear pillar would be difficult to do. The whole inleting of the receiver and barrel channel would have to be dropped the same distance including shortening the front pillar, trimming the magazine box, shortening the action screws, and maybe the trigger because it might hit the trigger guard.
I'ts much easier to make a taller rear pillar.
Fitch
