I've been reloading for 10 years or so so not new but have always wondered, when people say use something in the range of so and so powder, how big is that "range"? I always like to use components that i can find actual printed data for. I do have a friend with quickload and we are both still new to that but it is helpful. Looking at the latest burn rate chart, which I just found here yesterday, and thanks for that, what would be your "range" for powders in the H1000 area? I just happen to be working on a new load for a 7 Rem Mag and with the current climate of product availability and prices you guys know how it is. I'll be using some 162gr eld-x's coming out of ADG brass, with cci 250 primers. Would you say there's even a set range when using that phrase?
Burn rate range
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Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
As a new reloader, stick with reliable reloading resources from major manufacturers and forget about the "range of burning rates". Trying to extrapolate loads based on a powder's burning rate position on a chart is likely to get you into trouble.
The reloading books are excellent - just start low and work up as you look for signs of pressure. Avoid the temptation to get MORE velocity than you see in the manuals.
Good luck.
The reloading books are excellent - just start low and work up as you look for signs of pressure. Avoid the temptation to get MORE velocity than you see in the manuals.
Good luck.
WELL AT LEAST IT WASN'T ALL CAPS!
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I have been reloading for a very long time (60yr). Over 24 years ago. I move or change my powder loads beyond what the reloading manuals call out for. I was or still do use belted mag cases for that. I went up at very, very slowly increasing powder charge. Findly found that in case at hold 70gr or so. You could move up at .5grs at a time. Starting out in the low end of the reloading manual call out on that weight or grain of bullet. There I load up one case per powder charge and increase by .5gr for each case. Set several loads and go to the range. I watch very carefully for pressure signs. I would stop before any creating was showing up. A ladder test of a type. Smaller cases I only move up at .25grs at a time
Back then I got into trouble. I was using Double based powders. Not understanding how the temp effected them. Developed a load that was very accurate, but during the colder times in S. Cal. When back out in the summer to use that load. Blow a primer out of the case. Temp changed 50 to 60 degree during that time. I changed to single based powder and never looked back. Never had a problem again with single based powders so far. Those powder charges work in 100+ tem changes. I normal use H4350 or H4831which the temp doesn't effect then nearly much. I also hold my shots to 500yds too. That generally limited problem too.
With todays market and the availbablity of powder makes it hard to get what you want to use. So I am branching out into other single base powder to explore. I am also looking at the burn rate of the powders too. I cross reference to other cases and bullet weights to see what they are loading to get idea as to what powder charge I am going to use. Then go from there. I presently have 6mm/280AI chambering. So there isn't much out there for reloading info. That's find with me. I'll figure it out.
At the same time there isn't much out there on how the temp effects the powder either. Hodgdon has some, but that's about it.
So be carefull in builting your loads. It can be done.
If somebody else something in more detail. Please attach a PDF file here on LRH. I would very interested in it.
Back then I got into trouble. I was using Double based powders. Not understanding how the temp effected them. Developed a load that was very accurate, but during the colder times in S. Cal. When back out in the summer to use that load. Blow a primer out of the case. Temp changed 50 to 60 degree during that time. I changed to single based powder and never looked back. Never had a problem again with single based powders so far. Those powder charges work in 100+ tem changes. I normal use H4350 or H4831which the temp doesn't effect then nearly much. I also hold my shots to 500yds too. That generally limited problem too.
With todays market and the availbablity of powder makes it hard to get what you want to use. So I am branching out into other single base powder to explore. I am also looking at the burn rate of the powders too. I cross reference to other cases and bullet weights to see what they are loading to get idea as to what powder charge I am going to use. Then go from there. I presently have 6mm/280AI chambering. So there isn't much out there for reloading info. That's find with me. I'll figure it out.
At the same time there isn't much out there on how the temp effects the powder either. Hodgdon has some, but that's about it.
So be carefull in builting your loads. It can be done.
If somebody else something in more detail. Please attach a PDF file here on LRH. I would very interested in it.
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
Ranges are just a way to group powders from different manufacturers that in theory burn have similar rates. It's trying to describe cross-compatible substitutes. H1000 "range" powders are what's near it on the chart - Ramshot Magnum, RL 26, Accurate Magpro, N570.
Typically load manuals list powders in burn rate order from fastest to slowest, but that's a crap shoot because there's no standardization for burn rates.
I prefer to pick one powder brand and move up and down their relative burn rates - I like the Hodgdon Extreme line, so if I can't get H1000 I'll either move slower to Retumbo or faster to H4831 instead of trying different manufacturers. If that costs me some FPS to keep accuracy, that's fine with me.
H4831 has been readily available now, and Hornady has load data for it with the 162gn bullets.
There is a lot of powders in that "range" that will work for H1000, I outlined in green where I would like to be and yellow is other stuff I would consider because it will work fine also. Right now H1000 is unobtanium. I am not familiar with lots of those powders so personally I would go for any of those Vit powders N 160, 165, 170, 560, 565 or H4831sc.
Where as if you need a Retumbo replacement you have way less options before you step into something that is likely going to cost you substantial velocity.
Where as if you need a Retumbo replacement you have way less options before you step into something that is likely going to cost you substantial velocity.
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Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Vit powders 560, and 565 are double base powder. More subject to temperature change. The other are not. All powder subject temperature change. Some powders change as much as 1fps per degree.
The mean your velocity changes that more as temperature change. Under 500yds it isn't a real big problem. Belong that it does. 30fps variation of your bullet drop by about 8.5" @ 1000yds. A 50fps variation would make your bullet change by as much as 14" @ 1000yds. Thgat doesn't work in my book.
I have attached temperature change chart by Hodgdon Powder. I wish they had done more, but it's what it is.
The Vit N560 change about 121 fps from 0 to 125 degrees. A double based powder and N565.
Now I hunt in weather from -20 to 110+ so thats 130 degree change. So you should be able to draw from there.
If you use temperature sensitive powder you'll to know what it does or will happen. So you'll need to know how that load does in different temps. So don't let that stop you. I just order a # of N140, N150, N160, and N170 powder (single base powders). Because I can't get some types of powders. I nornally use H4350, H4831SC, and going to try H1000 powder. I can't presently get Retumbo. I came close, but not cigars. I did get some H1000 powder over the net just awhile back.
All info helps. Another- http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
Seen a test of H4831. 6 different lots. From slowest to fastest was +/- 5%
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Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I think it's been said over and over here, that if changing powder lots. You need to work your loads up again. The other is getting the same lots of powder. Presently that's hard to do. The prices of powder makes it hard too. You can have $600 to $800 in 16 lbs of powder presently, and different powder types that can lead into thousands of dollars sitting on a shelve. It sad at best.
I got one new rifle in early this year, and will have a 2nd one here shortly. One is a wildcat and the other is a well known caliber and chamber. I presently have a pet load for my other rifle in that chamber, but the other there isn't much on it. So I will have to develop loads for it in a couple of bullet weights. I think I am going to settle on Hunter 100gr bullets, but that remains to be seen. I am looking to extend my range out to 700+yds. Mostly for Varmints. Ground squirrels and P dogs, and they are small targets, that require a very accurate round at those ranges.
I have had to change my way of purchasing powder due to the supply of them, or not knowing what powder I am going to use for sure. I have limited my purchases 1# containers for now. To see how they are going to work out. The reason for that is, I don't want a lot of powder sitting around not being used or it doesn't work of me.
I am looking beyond just using H powders. Partly because I can't get them, and looking at different burn rate that close to them to try. A little faster or slower. All are in single based powders. I have gotten some double based powders in my hurry to have some type of powder on hand or add to my stocks. At the same time I don't want to hord either. I like to see others be able to acquire powders too to use.
8 to 16 lbs probably will require a working over a barrel by resetting the chamber and cutting off the muzzle, or replacing the barrel.
I got one new rifle in early this year, and will have a 2nd one here shortly. One is a wildcat and the other is a well known caliber and chamber. I presently have a pet load for my other rifle in that chamber, but the other there isn't much on it. So I will have to develop loads for it in a couple of bullet weights. I think I am going to settle on Hunter 100gr bullets, but that remains to be seen. I am looking to extend my range out to 700+yds. Mostly for Varmints. Ground squirrels and P dogs, and they are small targets, that require a very accurate round at those ranges.
I have had to change my way of purchasing powder due to the supply of them, or not knowing what powder I am going to use for sure. I have limited my purchases 1# containers for now. To see how they are going to work out. The reason for that is, I don't want a lot of powder sitting around not being used or it doesn't work of me.
I am looking beyond just using H powders. Partly because I can't get them, and looking at different burn rate that close to them to try. A little faster or slower. All are in single based powders. I have gotten some double based powders in my hurry to have some type of powder on hand or add to my stocks. At the same time I don't want to hord either. I like to see others be able to acquire powders too to use.
8 to 16 lbs probably will require a working over a barrel by resetting the chamber and cutting off the muzzle, or replacing the barrel.
Zen Archery
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Grab 3-4 different reloading manuals. Pick your favorite calibers. Look at the powders they constantly use per caliber. That's how I've grouped them as a "range" of powders.
nealm66
Well-Known Member
One thing to consider is powder type when searching for a similar burn rate. Trying to stay around 95% or better is a good idea and ball powders can slop around if not a good case fill but can sometimes give better velocity as your able to put more in a case at a slower burn rate
Seabeeken
Well-Known Member
An interesting burn rate chart. I've known for years burn rate varies by cartridge and bullet.
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