Bullet selection is driving me nuts....

[Teri Anne]

I feel like a dog chasing its tail. Lol

I have always been a Nosler Ballistic Tip guy and they have done very well for me, but I have been wanting to step up my long range game for hunting so I have been researching bullets with a better BC and maybe that holds up better on game, because it's seems that is what everyone is talking about now right..... But it seems that just when I think I have found one that I will try then I find all these bad reviews, which I know, obviously, no matter what you research you will find issues. I also know I am way over thinking this, as I do with most things in life, and I should just pick something and go with it.

I thought I had decided on Barnes LRX, yea I know, there BC is not good, but lots of folks rave about Barnes bullets and this is there long range bullet. So I tried it them out this year and wasn't overly impressed.

So I thought ok, I love Nosler bullets, I'm looking for good BC, something that holds together well, so I'll try the accubond long range. Well crude, there are more bad reviews on them than good.

In all my research it seems like Berger bullets always come up. Yes there are some bad reviews, but when I dig into them, it seems that most are blaming it on a plugged tip, and those that insure the tips are cleaned out, some are even drilling them out, have great luck. What gets me here is it seems lots of people, with seemingly with lots of experience, recommend the target bullets for hunting. What? I even had a very well known and experienced nilgai guide highly recommend 215 Berger Hybrid Target bullets for nilgai over accubonds and Barnes. I trust this guy as he is very successful with his clients who often shoot his rifle with those bullets. And nilgai are probably, IMO, some of the toughest, thickest skinned, animals in North America.

I honestly don't know why I'm rambling on about this, I'm sure most of you are thinking just pick something that shoots great out of my rifle and go with it. But I kinda want to start with a great bullet and go from there.

Anyone else going thru this chasing of the tail trying to pick a hunting bullet?

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Not that it really matters but I'm currently messing with my 7 SAUM, 28 Nosler, and 300 WM.

You will find that everyone has a different opinion on this. If it works for them then it works for them but you need to find something that will work for you.

In my case my preferred hunting bullet is the Nosler Partition 165 gr in 308 or 30-06. I have found that the Nosler 168 gr HPBT will duplicate the Partition's zero. I can shoot either of them without a change of zero when loaded identically with the exception of the bullet. This allows me to shoot the less expensive match bullets for zero or practice but still have a hunting zero at all times.

My alternate choice is a name you don't hear around here much, Sierra. The Sierra Match King and Game King bullets are also fantastic. also in the 165 for hunting and 168 for practice and zero in 30 caliber. There is a slight shift in zero between the Sierras but less than 1/2 MOA

While I reference the 30 caliber here I shoot both of these bullets in all of my rifles from .223 Rem to 300 WM in various weights. All including the hunting bullets are all easily capable of less than 1 MOA when paired up with the right powder and velocity that your rifle likes.

As for terminal performance, pretty much all hunting type bullets if selected properly for the caliber being shot and the game hunted will perform as designed. Yes depending on what you hit, where you hit it will depend upon what it's perceived performance will be. You can't judge a bullet's performance on someone reporting on only one shot.

In the end try some different loads and see which one your rifle likes best and go with it.

 

[snox801]

I shoot whitetail with a 25-06 using Nosler Ballistic Tips. Not once have I had an issue, most are DRT.

Same one I ran out of my 257 Weatherby. Great bullet. Never had a failure but also did not shoot enough game to collect any real world data. Maybe 20 animals total. Been running the 90gr hammer now at over 4K FPS because why not. Lol

 

[Muddyboots]

First - ALL BULLETS WILL HAVE A FAILURE at some time or another. If you search the interweb, there will be a "well documented " case that EVERYONE should stop using that bullet because it happened "to them". So the other thousands of successful users are idiots? There are infinite variables that can cause a bullet to not perform as designed. Everything from the reloading process to the animal, angles, animal condition, physiological condition of animal (hormones), environmental condition, minimal expansion velocity and so on.

Define what your need is instead of what you want. Define the animal you will hunt and at what expected range. There are bullets that perform well WITHIN their design. Know that and accept their design parameters. Notice I did not say limitations since if you define your need, the bullet design will be effective for your need. Depending on your need a cup and core may work fine or a mono could be best selection.

Very few bullets can be effective on all big game species at all ranges you may hunt. You may end up with a bullet for deer size and one for nilgai/elk size animals. If you are hunting ~500 and in, virtually any "good" cup and core will work fine. As stated, do not overlook Sierra for really good hunting bullet as well if you defined your need for bullet operational parameters.

Or you can just select a Hammer. I am still a Nosler AB BT guy for certain applications but I have seen the Hammer performance and they have delivered accuracy but most importantly exceptional terminal performance. This isn't kool aide just documentation of our own experiences with Hammers on whitetails. Yes, all bullets will kill a whitetail. But not all bullets showed us the accuracy and the consistent terminal performance we are seeing. Is it a large sample size? No, but large enough for my son and I to see it in real world application.

Choose the bullet once you have thoroughly defined your need taking into consideration the animal size, range, environmental conditions, the rifle set up, cartridge, rifle performance, your own realistic marksmanship and reloading capability. The decision really needs to be your own to have the confidence to put a crosshair on an animal knowing you have the "right" bullet to meet all of your defined bullet needs. Everything else is interweb chatter that may or may not help you arrive at what will work for you.

I will say the bullet selection is an evolutionary process in the sense you gain experiences which adjusts your own needs and "might" change your bullet selection.

Best of luck and post up your results. I find it educational to see how others arrive at a bullet selection.

 

[cajun]

I find this article sums it up nicely. If you aren't shooting past 500 yds velocity can be more important than BC. It's not until you get further downrange that the bc becomes more important. Also if you decide you want to consistently shoot critters at longer distances as much as I dont care for Bergers you need to consider them or the Sierra's.

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[LVJ76]

From what I read in your original description you like cup and core bullets like the nosler ballistic tip. Just want something with higher bc. If you want a similar tipped bullet I would look at the sierra tipped gameking or the hornady eldx. Bergers are also similar but not tipped. I personally run the eldx and have no worries about it. Also with cup and core the typical recommendation is to run heavy, it will reduce impact velocity and increase the mass of the bullet.

Like @NW NM hunter mentioned, with cup and core bullets for longer range, a heavy for caliber bullet is best.

Higher BC and more energy down range.

Although I do shoot some light bullets, the last few years I'v been leaning more towards heavier bullets.

Example, in my 7mm-08 I use some 120gr, 139gr and 150gr bullets, but now more 160gr, 162gr and 168gr.

In my 7mm Rem Mag (similar speeds to your 7 SAUM) I shoot 162gr SST's, 168gr Hybrid Hunters and the 180gr VLDH, heavier bullets that hold better together at higher magnum speeds, good for short and long range.

I shoot only 7mm cartridges, and I now use mostly I use 162gr A-Max, 162gr SST, 168gr Hybrid Hunter, 180gr VLDH, and this year will be trying out the 160gr Sierra Tipped Matchking. I worked up a load for the ELDX not long ago, but the A-Max shoots way better.

 

[Colin78]

Well......Last night I came across a 30 something long page thread on here about the Berger 215 hybrid 30 cal bullet. It's quite impressive. Out of a crap ton of documented kills not one single failure. And the ranges were from 50 yards to 1000+. The more reading on the bergers I do it seems the failures I read about are from 2 things...1, bullets that berger classify as hunting that has a thinner jacket and they explode on impact at high velocity, or 2, bullets that have a plugged hollow point or deformed/ smashed closed hollow point. I have not found someone post about a failure with berger target bullets, which have a thicker jacket, and that also make sure the hollow point is not plugged or deformed.

Has me thinking.....

 

[Calvin45]

Well......Last night I came across a 30 something long page thread on here about the Berger 215 hybrid 30 cal bullet. It's quite impressive. Out of a crap ton of documented kills not one single failure. And the ranges were from 50 yards to 1000+. The more reading on the bergers I do it seems the failures I read about are from 2 things...1, bullets that berger classify as hunting that has a thinner jacket and they explode on impact at high velocity, or 2, bullets that have a plugged hollow point or deformed/ smashed closed hollow point. I have not found someone post about a failure with berger target bullets, which have a thicker jacket, and that also make sure the hollow point is not plugged or deformed.

Has me thinking.....

I'm sure if you simply googled "Berger fail" you'd find very easily what has eluded you haha. We see what we want to see.

and that's not trying. To throw shade at berger or you! But we all have what's called confirmation bias or what Jesus might have more down-to-earth referred to as "eyes to see" haha

 

[Muddyboots]

First - ALL BULLETS WILL HAVE A FAILURE at some time or another. If you search the interweb, there will be a "well documented " case that EVERYONE should stop using that bullet because it happened "to them". So the other thousands of successful users are idiots? There are infinite variables that can cause a bullet to not perform as designed.

I stand by this comment. Every bullet will have a failure, some not as frequently as others, some are more flexible in applications that reduce potential failure.

If you run a FMEA on every bullet under every potential firing scenario, you will find a failure. Its up to the shooter to minimize those potential scenarios with good decisions.

 

[LVJ76]

I stand by this comment. Every bullet will have a failure, some not as frequently as others, some are more flexible in applications that reduce potential failure.

If you run a FMEA on every bullet under every potential firing scenario, you will find a failure. Its up to the shooter to minimize those potential scenarios with good decisions.

YUP, well said Muddy.

No such thing as a do it all bullet, and yes, all bullets will fail eventually.

If you have done this long enough, you'll see bullets do some crazy things.

 

[ARlife4me]

With most Spbt's you will gain velocity when compared to same weight bullets of higher bc. I either used Speer or Sierra 130 and 140's in 264wm and 270win. When people like "newer is better" bullets there's nothing wrong with the older bullets. Nothing was passed 500, so that might be a determining factor for others?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

again, ordered hornady and speer tonight... muzzy stuff from Midway, but same story again... in stock, decent price... I know they will work well

 

[fordy]

Gday

Well......Last night I came across a 30 something long page thread on here about the Berger 215 hybrid 30 cal bullet. It's quite impressive. Out of a crap ton of documented kills not one single failure. And the ranges were from 50 yards to 1000+. The more reading on the bergers I do it seems the failures I read about are from 2 things...1, bullets that berger classify as hunting that has a thinner jacket and they explode on impact at high velocity, or 2, bullets that have a plugged hollow point or deformed/ smashed closed hollow point. I have not found someone post about a failure with berger target bullets, which have a thicker jacket, and that also make sure the hollow point is not plugged or deformed.

Has me thinking.....

Thinking is good

So let's break this down to where a pill will fail as per I don't care so much about when they work ( still important to know but it's less than ideal placement & or failure we learn more from & the ones the better pills cover more bases with )

Broadly speaking on the following

A frangible is no good up close especially on high resistance & also angles come into play here
A mono reigns supreme here
A mono is great up close yet no good when you get out yonder or on less resistance

Now types regardless of brand or makeup
= Hollow point
Soft point
Tip
Being the most popular so we will work with them

Ea of these styles have pluses & minuses
Yet on the whole they will kill satisfactory
So do we look @ that as it dosent matter what we use

I say yes if your happy to kill but if you want to reduce the time from impact to tip across various resistances like some do , we better start pulling ea of those apart & this is where it gets so stupid as the variables start to come into play
Jacket thickness or taper , type of alloy lead , copper , brass etc
Inserts , dual cores , bonded & locking rings broaching etc

So let's delve into HP first
The way these fail is nose over then our consistency goes out the window especially angles & hard resistances but also one seldom looks @ it's magazine damage or cycling issues deforming the hp this especially is true with the thin jacket c&c with the mono somewhat more resilient @ this occurring
Now let's delve deeper again I've annealed bullets to get a more consistent opening that it fixed one part but created others
Cleaned hp up to get more consistency & on the whole that worked well but also created others so left with storage & transport along with cycling that can be somewhat controlled but the critter we can't & this is where the fails will come with a hp design in addition to above , depending on angle & resistance along with the makeup of the pill in question

So potentially you may have had one of the above happen to you with the hammer & a nose over or plugged hp most likely yet it's just the trait of a hp & it's weakness just as with the Berger or hornady sierra or Barnes etc they all have this weakness but some worse than others & I'll pick on hammer in the monos here as a comparison
The difference of the alloy between say a hammer & ceb maximus is quite noticeable just drop one on the hp & you'll see straight away so on that I'd use the maximus on that analogy yet move it to critters & the maximus just dosent give the consistency of the hammer from impact to tip yet the wounds look good even somewhat similar
So we need to delve deeper but that's for another day lol

Move to SP
It also suffers a bit like the HP yet is overall less troublesome & also has some of the characteristics of a tip yet that's a little more to do with resistances than the sp itself

So I'll leave that alone & move to the tip & overall it is a sound design on paper yet on angles striking bone extremely quickly ( big ribs are classic) that we enter into more deflection /sliding along them also they can suffer from to quick of a expansion on bones to adequately work but this is more the c&c than mono but the mono also have a habit of tumble on these shots & that dosent need to be a hard quarter to see these happen ( other things play in here also )

I've left individual brands / traits out for a very good reason as they just are so different that a lot more delving needs to take place before we can really address a pill's capabilities & the velocity window it works real well in or drops off & another pill would be a better option

Stay safe shoot straight
Wish you the best in your journey
Cheers

 

[Buffalobwana]

I feel like a dog chasing its tail. Lol

I have always been a Nosler Ballistic Tip guy and they have done very well for me, but I have been wanting to step up my long range game for hunting so I have been researching bullets with a better BC and maybe that holds up better on game, because it's seems that is what everyone is talking about now right..... But it seems that just when I think I have found one that I will try then I find all these bad reviews, which I know, obviously, no matter what you research you will find issues. I also know I am way over thinking this, as I do with most things in life, and I should just pick something and go with it.

I thought I had decided on Barnes LRX, yea I know, there BC is not good, but lots of folks rave about Barnes bullets and this is there long range bullet. So I tried it them out this year and wasn't overly impressed.

So I thought ok, I love Nosler bullets, I'm looking for good BC, something that holds together well, so I'll try the accubond long range. Well crude, there are more bad reviews on them than good.

In all my research it seems like Berger bullets always come up. Yes there are some bad reviews, but when I dig into them, it seems that most are blaming it on a plugged tip, and those that insure the tips are cleaned out, some are even drilling them out, have great luck. What gets me here is it seems lots of people, with seemingly with lots of experience, recommend the target bullets for hunting. What? I even had a very well known and experienced nilgai guide highly recommend 215 Berger Hybrid Target bullets for nilgai over accubonds and Barnes. I trust this guy as he is very successful with his clients who often shoot his rifle with those bullets. And nilgai are probably, IMO, some of the toughest, thickest skinned, animals in North America.

I honestly don't know why I'm rambling on about this, I'm sure most of you are thinking just pick something that shoots great out of my rifle and go with it. But I kinda want to start with a great bullet and go from there.

Anyone else going thru this chasing of the tail trying to pick a hunting bullet?

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Not that it really matters but I'm currently messing with my 7 SAUM, 28 Nosler, and 300 WM.

You seem to be a victim of analysis paralysis. All the bullets you listed are perfectly acceptable. Pick the most accurate one and go hunting.

My opinion is that they are all better than ballistic tips. But, not everyone shares my view on BT's.

 

[BROWNINGrums]

Thats $1400 in bullets lol.

Yea I'm wondering what state he's in that allows him to kill sooo many deer even at 10 deer a year that's 10 years the only state I know of that you could possibly do that is Alabama. And how long has terminal ascent bullets been out!!!