Budget Scope Advice

[bruce_ventura]

So here's what's still on my list, and those marked "*" are those I've actually been able to look through. (Some brief thoughts follow)

*Revenge: 4-12x42 (Looked pretty good and w/ $40 rebate, tempting)
*Revolution: 4-12x40 (Looks goods and like the slim profile, low weight)
Fullfield E1: 4.5X-14X-42mm (like the better turrets)
Fullfield II: 4.5X-14X-42mm
*Vortex DB: 4-12X40 (good clarity, eye-relief, just o.k.)
Nikon BM: 4.5X-14X-40 (want the hard to find mil-dot; not too sure about their BDC)
Legend Ultra Hd: 4.5-14x44 Mil-dot (hear good things, and have binos in series that are quite good for the $$)
*Trophy XLT: 4-12X4 (actually fairly good, seemed better than Prostaff. AO...iffy.)
Trophy XLT: 6-18x40 (wonder how clear is at 18x and AO...iffy.)

I can give you some feedback based on my own evaluation:

Redfields: lower than average glare; resolution degrades as you look toward the edge of the field of view; cheap looking graphics.

Vortex DB: higher than average glare - better choices exist for a big game hunting scope.

Nikon BM: slightly lower than average glare; decent hunting scope; I don't like the Nikon BDC reticle, but some folks do.

Bushnell Legend HD: good resolution across the field of view, but higher than average glare - better choices exist.

Konus M-30 has also been mentioned. It's been a while since I evaluated them. Glare was higher than average across the line, so I lost interest in that mfr. MudRunner2005 likes his, so glare performance may have improved. I prefer Hawke Sidewinder 30 scopes in that price range because they have low glare, good resolution, and a durable mechanical design. The reticles are great too. Either one seems too heavy for the OP.

Trophy scopes, like most Bushnells, are hit and miss. One model will be pretty good, while the next model in the same line sucks. I've noticed that Trophy lenses are not centered well and that makes me suspicious that the mfr cuts other corners too.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Bruce, the Konus M-30 was my suggestion. I love mine, and so far I have only found 2 issues with the scope in the last 1.5 years. Yes, glare can be bad, I have noticed that as well, which is issue #1. And the second issue is that it only has 45 MOA of elevation adjustment. I think a scope like that needs to have atleast 60 MOA.

Other than those 2 issues, I love the scope, especially for $350. I'm probably gonna have to order another one soon b/c I can't afford the NF I want, which is a NXS 8-32x56 HS, ZS, 1/10 Mil, MOAR.

 

[ntg]

Thanks, Bruce, for the additional input, especially on the glare as it's not easy to know that looking through one in the store, and some stores won't let you take them outside.

Bruce, what would you say are the differences, if any, between the two Redfields? I really want to look through the E1 still, but don't know if I'll be able to very soon, as I'm in a small town and will have to drive to see a place with a lot of scopes.

 

[bruce_ventura]

I struggled with the gimmicky Accu-Ranger reticle on the Revenge scopes - not my cup of tea. I preferred the simpler BDC reticle on the Revolution scopes.

One thing I forgot to mention. Both scope lines use a two-piece tube construction. There is a seam at the front of the turret housing. This cost-cutting measure is also used by Leupold in their Rifleman line sold at Wallmart.

The two halves of the two-piece tube are not truly coaxial, which can lead to mechanical stress and point-of-aim instability. Lapping the rings doesn't remove stress in a two-piece tube. I think that Burris Signature rings would be the best mounts for these scopes.

Other cost cutting seems to be in coatings (not fully multicoated) and the erector tube (limited zoom range and optical aberrations). While these features are not fatal flaws, they put the Redfield scopes a notch below others on your list. You get what you pay for.

 

[ntg]

That is very good to know Bruce. Thanks. So I know you'd recommend the E1 series with Burris, and I believe they have one piece tubes, but any others you'd recommend? If I can't afford the E1s? Again, thanks. I'm learning a lot.

 

[bruce_ventura]

You're price ceiling seems to be $200-ish. I haven't found much at that price point that I feel comfortable recommending. Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 is my favorite, except that the turret knobs are too small for long range. Even the classic entry-level long range scope, the Bushnell Elite 10x40, has risen above that price. Adding just $50-100 gets you into the $250-300 range which offers a lot more options.

I'm on travel until Thu and don't have my notes with me. I noticed your list did not include anything from Weaver. There may be something there in your price range that has the right mix of quality, engineering, performance and features. I'm thinking of Kaspa or Buck Commander, but I need my notes to be sure.

 

[FEENIX]

Bruce, the Konus M-30 was my suggestion. I love mine, and so far I have only found 2 issues with the scope in the last 1.5 years. Yes, glare can be bad, I have noticed that as well, which is issue #1. And the second issue is that it only has 45 MOA of elevation adjustment. I think a scope like that needs to have atleast 60 MOA.

Other than those 2 issues, I love the scope, especially for $350. I'm probably gonna have to order another one soon b/c I can't afford the NF I want, which is a NXS 8-32x56 HS, ZS, 1/10 Mil, MOAR.

MudRunner2005 - I too have a very good experience with mine and I agree with your assessment. I have the 6.5-25x44 with 60 MOA. NOTE: The 4-16x44 has 80 MOA.

Bruce - That's very nice of you for taking the time to share your evaluation. Thanks!

ntg - Have you looked through the new Vortex Crossfire IIs? Not field conditions, but I compared them outside the store with the DB and my eyes prefer the Crossfire IIs. I will be ordering the 6-18x44 DHBDC for my wife's AR. Good luck!

Ed

 

[lloydsmale]

heres my advice for a buget. Dont worry about the rings and bases. Weaver bases and rings my not bring oohs and awws from the high end guys but they get the job done. There plenty strong and stable for about any gun. As to a scope if I didnt have at least 200 bucks to spend id seriously consider looking for a used one. For 200 bucks your going to find used nikon monarchs, leupold vx2s and bushnell 4200s. All much better scopes then the ones your considering. Nice thing is that at least nikon and leupold have lifetime warantees even if you not the original buyer so its pretty hard to get stung buying used

 

[ntg]

Bruce, I'd say that $325 to my door is max in price, but willing to do less if it's the right deal (as the house needs carpet, etc.) Hence, the E1 and Buckmaster are on the list. I'll patiently await your recommendation with this criteria (got to wait for funds to grow for a month or so anyway). I have a friend that has the Elite 10x40, and it is fairly good and I'd go there, but want variable as I'll be hunting with it as well.

Ed, no haven't been able to look at the Crossfire II. I'm hoping to be able to look at lots of these the last week of the month as I'll be in Boise for work.

LLoyd, my plan is to use weaver quad-loks on the bases and I'm looking for good used too. I've even seen some of the old VX-I on close out that could do.

My thanks to you all for the help, education, Nate.

 

[fred64]

Being poor has it's advantages. I don't waste much money. { I like to think that anyway}.
Last year I purchased a series 2 Vanguard in 300 win mag. Was under $500. Last month I bought a Vortex Crossfire 2 in 6-18x44, under $300. While both of these items are on the low end of the quality side of things, I am very happy with both. The rifle is a good accurate one, I consistently use it for 1000 yard gong shooting, and the scope is very clear and I like the hash-mark reticule. I also put a Rifle Basics trigger in it. At one pound pull, my abilities have increased dramatically. I got lucky and traded a box of primers for the trigger. { may have been a mistake, since everything is hard to get}. While the trigger is regarded as too light for hunting, after getting used to it, I am doing fine.

Opinions are held in hi esteem. I love mine.

 

[ntg]

Fred, I know I need to look at the Crossfire 2. Thanks for the input.

BTW, the great thing about the opinions is their quantity and costs! Seriously, I appreciate your input. Nate

 

[fred64]

ntg, you are welcome. regarding my opinions, i'm a cranky old retired cop. I live alone in the desert with my buddy--an austrailian healer-- and my kitty.
when i'm in a good mood, I do try to be helpful.
the peckerwood thing with too many guns is my mantra.
seriously, I am very impressed with the Vortex. found it at sportsman's warehouse. $269.

 

[ntg]

Fred, I'm glad I caught you on a good day! BTW, I can handle cops; work with them every day. There's a Sportsman's about half an hour from here. I'll be making a trip next week for various things.

 

[fred64]

ntg, glad you have a sense of hummer. Frankly, after being retired from the job almost 13 years, cops are generally a pain in the ***. They have a unique job. Few seem to get that little fact, and I do seem to forget it myself at times. After awhile, as a cop, you get tired of hanging around cops when off duty, and you can not afford many civilian friends, partly because when they see you, they instantly think they are or have done something unlawful. And they often are/do.
It's a fun, tragic, time consuming job, I am very glad I'm retired.
Now for breakfast.