• If you are being asked to change your password, and unsure how to do it, follow these instructions. Click here

Berger Smoke and Mirrors?

Broz said:
:D Well I try to keep an open mind. But I really have to say I don't much buy onto all that theory. However I do know of about 70 big game animals that sure did expire fast from lead poisoning just last year alone.

I plan to test your bullets for myself when I have time. So keep the low impact velocity expansion and BC's up and the copper fouling down and I bet we can work together well. I just need time to start over, my plate is pretty full these days with reviews and video's.

gun)

Jeff
Click to expand...

You just say the word on what you want to give a go. The new copper we just got is performing better than we even hoped. Low velocity performance is significantly better. As you know the bc's are good with the tangent ogive we currently use in the entire line. Super easy to load and very consistent accuracy. We may start working on some secant/hybrid ogives to see how much we can increase bc's. This will probably be just for the heavy for cal bullets for truly long range work. It will be interesting to see how much more finicky they will get. Right now they are the easiest bullet I have ever loaded.

As far as the lead goes. I think it was a good idea to make sure that our children are not exposed to it in their toys and paint etc. If it is a good idea for our children to not ingest lead, it is probably a good idea for all of us to not ingest lead. Lead is an extremely useful element for many things, but the fact is, its toxic. So limiting our exposure to it is only smart.

The lead thing is not why I started shooting mono's. I prefer how they perform on game and the lack of meat loss. We have never marketed on the whole lead free buzz that is currently happening. I look at the lead free bullet as a bonus. The bullet performs exactly as I think a bullet should and the bonus is no toxicity.

We will just continue striving for better and better bullet performance. I don't think we are going to convince people to use our bullet based on the lead free status. I want people to use our bullet because they simply work better than the rest.

Steve
 
RockyMtnMT said:
As far as the lead goes. I think it was a good idea to make sure that our children are not exposed to it in their toys and paint etc. If it is a good idea for our children to not ingest lead, it is probably a good idea for all of us to not ingest lead. Lead is an extremely useful element for many things, but the fact is, its toxic. So limiting our exposure to it is only smart.




We will just continue striving for better and better bullet performance. I don't think we are going to convince people to use our bullet based on the lead free status. I want people to use our bullet because they simply work better than the rest.

Steve
Click to expand...

Well I look at the whole lead thing as just more government BS. I grew up in home with lead based paint. I can honestly say I have NEVER ever seen or even heard of an issue. It is just something we were told to believe because they are smarter than us. The only red meat we eat here was taken with lead bullets. Been that way all my life. To each his own here.

I know we only killed 70 elk here last year, all but a few with cup core bullets. But I have seen game taken all my life with different bullets , calibers, and shot placement. I stick by my opinion that meat loss is solely a product of bullet placement and impact velocity. Put a sold 85 gr in the front shoulder at high velocity and you will have just as much meat ruined.

Have you ever though of designing a fragmenting bullet. The bonus of terminal performance if you are off the mark a little is real. I know this is not your preference and respect that. But understand some of us feel just as strongly about liking them and how well the kill quickly.

Jeff
 
Broz said:
Well I look at the whole lead thing as just more government BS. I grew up in home with lead based paint. I can honestly say I have NEVER ever seen or even heard of an issue. It is just something we were told to believe because they are smarter than us. The only red meat we eat here was taken with lead bullets. Been that way all my life. To each his own here.

I know we only killed 70 elk here last year, all but a few with cup core bullets. But I have seen game taken all my life with different bullets , calibers, and shot placement. I stick by my opinion that meat loss is solely a product of bullet placement and impact velocity. Put a sold 85 gr in the front shoulder at high velocity and you will have just as much meat ruined.

Have you ever though of designing a fragmenting bullet. The bonus of terminal performance if you are off the mark a little is real. I know this is not your preference and respect that. But understand some of us feel just as strongly about liking them and how well the kill quickly.

Jeff
Click to expand...

I think we are there on the fragmenting. We are running deep hollow points with relatively long nosed bullets shedding the nose. Our weight retention on most of the line is between 70 and 80%. Petals shed off in 10+ grain pieces doing their own bit of damage. The larger bullets shed more percentage of weight than the smaller for cal bullets. The heavy for caliber bullets can afford to loose a bit more weight.

As far as the lead goes, just think how smart you would be if you hadn't eaten all that lead paint. :D

Steve
 
The lead issue really ticks me of and is utter BS, at the time that all started I was running a wild game processing plant so we ended up having meat in x ray machines and all kinds of stupid stuff like that, never was a thing found. We ran bone plates on out grinder which you can adjust to take anything out from tendons and harder out, on the two occasions I found bullet frag in the bucket it was copper frag and we shut down the cutting line and had a little meeting. You can cut meat with high yields and not have garbage in your meat.
I quite shooting Barnes because of meat loss, you loose meat with every hit of some kind, either bullet or none caused but I so rarely actually shot an elk only once that by the time there dead I had at least two holes in and two holes out and usually had to try to break shoulder and then one mysteriously would not be found and now I know it was because of deflections so there goes an entire elk. I'll trade the one small hole in behind the shoulder and maybe an exit and loosing a few pounds of rib meat for only shooting them once and having a dead elk every time.
I will try hammers though because they look like well see better collateral damage with behind the shoulder shots than any other copper bullet.
 
bigngreen said:
The lead issue really ticks me of and is utter BS, at the time that all started I was running a wild game processing plant so we ended up having meat in x ray machines and all kinds of stupid stuff like that, never was a thing found. We ran bone plates on out grinder which you can adjust to take anything out from tendons and harder out, on the two occasions I found bullet frag in the bucket it was copper frag and we shut down the cutting line and had a little meeting. You can cut meat with high yields and not have garbage in your meat.
I quite shooting Barnes because of meat loss, you loose meat with every hit of some kind, either bullet or none caused but I so rarely actually shot an elk only once that by the time there dead I had at least two holes in and two holes out and usually had to try to break shoulder and then one mysteriously would not be found and now I know it was because of deflections so there goes an entire elk. I'll trade the one small hole in behind the shoulder and maybe an exit and loosing a few pounds of rib meat for only shooting them once and having a dead elk every time.
I will try hammers though because they look like well see better collateral damage with behind the shoulder shots than any other copper bullet.
Click to expand...

Now there ya go again with supported facts. :D

Jeff
 
Whoa fellas. Not wanting to start that debate. That is why I generally do not bring it up. I don't think a guy should stop use of a lead bullet because of the lead.

I'll bow out as this is not what this thread was started for.

Steve
 
Heck guys, I have been spittin lead birdshot out of my Rabbits, Squirrels and Grouse going on 40 years.. And I'm fine. (Despite popular belief):D





I have never actually seen any body with lead poisoning, have any of you?
 
Warning! This thread is more than 9 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

W
What causes smoke from reloads?
Replies
5
Views
6K
SansSouci
S
tigerwerkes
Dear Nosler and Berger,
5 6 7
Replies
86
Views
7K
FEENIX
FEENIX
F
264wm and 156 berger
2
Replies
17
Views
3K
Double Dropper
Double Dropper
K
300WSM and Berger Bullets
2
Replies
16
Views
38K
TexSavage
TexSavage
P
Berger and barrel twist
Replies
8
Views
3K
sniperjwt
S

Recent Posts

Top