Benefits of the 1/4 bore?

[Deleted member 46119]

I've said this for years, but you always just end up chasing your tail. Nobody wants to produce a cup & core VLD or Hybrid high BC .25 bullet that's actually affordable for guys like me that don't have the money to spend on lathe-cut copper monos.

The b*tch of it is, that if they did make one, it would eventually become popular, if twist rates would modernize. But nobody wants to put out the money to make that happen. The big gun manufacturers got behind and started pumping-out guns with 1:8 twists for the .26 cals, and 1:10 for the .30 cals, but not any other calibers. It's almost asinine to the consumer to have to choose between a slow twist barrel for bullets from yesteryear, or custom build a whole new rifle, just to be able to shoot modern bullets. It's like you're getting kicked in the junk regardless of which route you go.

vBulliten needs a like button LIKE

 

[MudRunner2005]

vBulliten needs a like button LIKE

I mean, it's just GD ridiculous. All of these profit-vampires that own the big manufacturing companies refuse to spend any money that would actually make them TONS of money, if they would just update their tooling and way of thinking! Remington especially. If I was rich, I would do something about it, but I'm just a broke nobody...But atleat I live in the real world enough to know what people want and what sells...They either don't care, or are just too old school and hard-headed to realize it. Remington could actually corner the market if they offered a 26" 5R 1:8 .257 heavy barreled rifle chambered in .25-06 and .257 Wby. Or a 26" 5R 1:8 twist 7mm RM, 7 STW, or .28 Nosler with a heavy barrel. You tell me there wouldn't be people lined up to buy one. I know I would be....Probably one of each!

 

[Barrelnut]

So this question has had me thinking for awhile. What are the benefits of the 1/4 bore over calibers say the 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges? I'm mainly wondering is there a benefit to shooting a lower bc bullet at high velocity over a higher bc bullet over a slower velocity? For example say the 243, 6.5 cm/260, 7mm-08 etc vs faster cartridges like the 25-06. Just running the numbers to me it makes no sense to shoot the 1/4 bore when it can be matched with smaller cartridges. Or even necking down a 25 cal catridge to 6mm or up to a 6.5mm will both yeild better results on paper. I'm not trying to start an arguement I'm just looking for some factual data see what I'm missing. Thanks!

If you did much hunting at all before the invention of laser rangefinders and MOA reticles, it would be easy to understand the popularity of the 25-06. Fast flat shooting cartridges were popular, because accurately judging distance was extremely difficult, and almost everyone was doing holdovers with a regular crosshair.

The 25-06, though not as efficient, is still a nice step up from a 243, especially in the days before "ballistic apps". It hits harder, shoots flatter and helped people be more successful in the field. With 75 Gr. bullets it can do 3800 FPS and is an creditably flat shooting varmint round.

I have seen more deer killed with 243's and 25-06's than anything else and, to me, it seemed the 25-06 almost always performed better.

There are even a couple 25 cal. bullets that are almost legendary - the Sierra 117 Gr. Pro Hunter, and the Nosler 120 Gr. partition

Given all that, when my 25-06 wears out, I will re-barrel to a 6.5 something...

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

If you did much hunting at all before the invention of laser rangefinders and MOA reticles, it would be easy to understand the popularity of the 25-06. Fast flat shooting cartridges were popular, because accurately judging distance was extremely difficult, and almost everyone was doing holdovers with a regular crosshair.

The 25-06, though not as efficient, is still a nice step up from a 243, especially in the days before "ballistic apps". It hits harder, shoots flatter and helped people be more successful in the field. With 75 Gr. bullets it can do 3800 FPS and is an creditably flat shooting varmint round.

I have seen more deer killed with 243's and 25-06's than anything else and, to me, it seemed the 25-06 almost always performed better.

There are even a couple 25 cal. bullets that are almost legendary - the Sierra 117 Gr. Pro Hunter, and the Nosler 120 Gr. partition

Given all that, when my 25-06 wears out, I will re-barrel to a 6.5 something...

I've never cared for the 25 cal, but now I'm seeing the usefulness of a hot 25. It's more forgiving if you mess up your range or don't dial or hold over correctly. Still has plenty of wallop too.

 

[FEENIX]

There are a lot of different reasons to choose a certain cartridge. For shooting paper, caliber/cartridge combinations don't really matter as long as the range is within reason. longer ranges need larger heavier bullets. shorter ranges can be used with almost any caliber/cartridge.

For Hunting, the rules change a bit. it is more important to have a cartridge that delivers enough energy, and can transfer that energy to the game being hunted. BCs have nothing to do with this as long as the bullet is accurate and on target. It does have a bearing on how well it performs and remains stable at the longest distances.

Velocity effects trajectory and has a bearing on bullet performance down range on game and should be a factor when choosing a cartridge for hunting. ultra high velocities can damage to much tissue and in some cases not bring the game down as well as a medium velocity cartridge of the same caliber.

So the requirements for paper are totally different than for hunting. also caliber does not dictate accuracy. Any cartridge can be made to shoot accurately. Cartridges that fill certain needs can be very accurate for those needs, just as cartridges for hunting certain game also best fill the hunters needs for that game.

Numbers (BCs, energy, Velocity)are the name of the game now days, but can mean very little in certain uses, so one has to combine and in many cases compromise everything to get the best results for the use.

Numbers, are just a good way to evaluate a cartridge so it can be chosen for the best overall performance for it's intended use and does not indicate whether it is better than another cartridge for all uses.

My recommendation is not to get caught up in the numbers game. just pick the cartridge/bullet combination that best suite's the need based on all the factors.

J E CUSTOM

Jerry,

As always, you're on point.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[WeiserBucks]

An often overlooked benefit of the smaller calibers is less recoil . That makes them attractive for youth , women and grown men who are tired of getting beat up by the magnums .

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

An often overlooked benefit of the smaller calibers is less recoil . That makes them attractive for youth , women and grown men who are tired of getting beat up by the magnums .

That's why I was thinking of my wife for this caliber. I shoot a 7mm RM so I don't need a 25 cal because I already have fast and flat. But the 7mm beats my wife up little so it may be a good alternative

 

[MudRunner2005]

That's why I was thinking of my wife for this caliber. I shoot a 7mm RM so I don't need a 25 cal because I already have fast and flat. But the 7mm beats my wife up little so it may be a good alternative

.260 AI is also a solid performer. It can get 140's around 3,000 fps from a 26" barrel... Might be worth looking into as well.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

.260 AI is also a solid performer. It can get 140's around 3,000 fps from a 26" barrel... Might be worth looking into as well.

I think that's what I'm going to do when I burn my creedmoor barrel up. Or go to a 6mm.

 

[J E Custom]

Jerry,

As always, you're on point.

Cheers!

Ed

Thanks Ed !!!!

I am not a wordsmith like some, so I'm glad it made sense.

Just hoping to help answer some very good questions when I can.

J E CUSTOM

 

[sambo3006]

I used to have an Accumark .257 Wby, only had the chance to kill one deer with it but it performed well with the 110 gr Accubond. I'm staring at my set of .257 Wby dies and a stainless mag face action trying to think of why I shouldn't build another one. But then again, I have this set of .264 WM dies...

 

[el matador]

I like the term "1/4 bore". I wish I liked the .257 caliber as much, but for western hunting and long range shooting there are better choices. Any of the .257s are fine deer hunting rounds for close to medium range, so if you already have one of these guns I say go ahead and use it. The problem, as others have stated, is the lack of versatility due to available bullets. A 6.5-284 will do everything a 25-06 will do but gives you much better bullet options for long range shooting. If someone is small and recoil-sensitive they will usually benefit from a shorter gun as well. Women and kids have short arms. A short action .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor comes very close to the performance of a 25-06 in a shorter, lighter package. And, even though I'm not a big proponent of using 6.5s for elk, I would feel much better about hunting them with a 6.5 than a 25 cal.

Recently I set out to find a good caliber for a youth gun. The kid in question is really small for his age. I looked hard at the .260 but ended up getting a 7mm-08. I'm going to load up some 120 grain bullets at 2900-3000 fps and the deer shouldn't ask many questions. I also plan to use this gun to throw in my pack when scouting in case I see a varmint. The .260 and 7mm-08 are so similar I had a hard time deciding. The .260 has more varmint bullets available, but the 7mm can shoot 150 grain bullets effectively from a short barrel. Either is a great choice for deer hunting. In the end I went with the 7mm because this gun may be used for elk at some point.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I've talked myself out of a 7-08 many times, I'm currently talking myself into one .

 

[el matador]

When I saw what a 7mm-08 would do with a 120 grain Ballistic Tip and a 20" barrel I was sold. Everybody seems to love that bullet. BC is only in the low .4s but at 3000 FPS the ballistics are pretty dang good out to 500 yards.