Bear spray vs Bullets

[MontanaRifleman]

I know that but you are missing the point. Bears are a hell of a lot tougher than humans.

That's very true, but "toughness" does not matter. Bears are a lot tougher than skunks but they steer clear of them. The UDAP type products get into airways and lungs and eyes, unlike other types of spray. This is very unpleasant to bears or anything else for that matter. Many bears have been deterred by these types of sprays and to the best of my knowledge they have not failed to turn away a bear when the person has had enough time to deploy the spray.

 

[J E Custom]

None of the talk about bear sprays has changed my mind.

If I ever have a bear encounter I will have a large revolver with me if I can. If I am on a long hike and weight might be a problem I will have my titanium 44 special at my side. if in camp situation
I will have my 454 Casull by my side.

At least I have 5 chances to ruin his day and if one fails, still have 4 chances not one aerosol can.

Even though I have some powerful semi auto pistols if they foul or jam you need two hands to clear them, the revolver only requires I hand and even if you have a misfire you simply pull the trigger again.

There are many good bear guns, rifles and shout guns, but for that last ditch chance when everything has gone wrong the big bore revolver has my vote. Don't carry a knife to a gun fight.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[stonehands1]

Personally my 460 is always with me while back country hunting. It's has minimal recoil thanks to a very efficient compensator. The only problem with that is you must wear ear protection with it. My solution has always been pair of walker game ears.
I have often carried a can a regular Napa break cleaner when I know I'm in a neighborhood where there are some local unfriendly dogs. It works very well in deterring even the most determined dogs. Stops them instantly and they seem to forget your even there. Is it ethical? I suppose that would depend on which end of the dog your on.
Where I'm going with this is maybe there something better than bear spray in the non lethal category.

 

[Pdvdh]

Many bears have been deterred by these types of sprays and to the best of my knowledge they have not failed to turn away a bear when the person has had enough time to deploy the spray.

Dead men don't speak.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

My reason for jumping in this thread was not to change anyone's mind. It was to inform the readers of this thread that there have been developments in spray products and dsipell the myth that bears can not be effectively deterred with with these products. They can be and they have been. So that is all I'm going to say on the matter as for some reason, some folk tend to take this subject a bit personally.

It's a free country and so pick whatever makes you comfortable. I will do the same. And be smart in bear country and you will greatly reduce your risk of a bad experience.

Cheers

Oh yeah.... dead men don't speak... but newspapers do

 

[Pdvdh]

Oh yeah.... dead men don't speak... but newspapers do

Newspapers can't print what isn't spoken from the dead, when the dead are digested, excreted, and never found.

Bears come in all styles and flavors, from Teddies to Killers. The only bear that's incapable of killing is a dead bear.

I know of no official in Alaska who's work duties include responding to trouble and nuisance bears carrying only bear spray. The man responsible for responding in my area of Alaska told me he has no use for it, never carries it, and he did not recommend it to me. He has more bear encounters and interactions than most. But no one's being forced to comply with his preferences.

The officials that flew out to recover the remains of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend didn't carry bear spray. And when the killer bear approached them as they approached the victims remains, they sprayed that bear with lead, not pepper. Then another brown bear approached and it met the same end.

These responders are given their choice of defense options. If they trusted bear spray more than bullets, why wouldn't these officials carry and use bear spray preferentially to lethal firearms? I gotta believe they've considered their options.

The fact that I post this response doesn't mean I take anyone's stated preference or statements about their best bear defense tool personally. Forums allow readers exposure to all sides of the issues, from all perspectives, from all sorts of folks. I'm expressing my perspective, not forcing it on anyone. There's nothing personal about "dead men don't speak". The folks that have disappeared in Alaska that have never been found, don't report how they met their end, and neither do newspapers.

Most folks that don't know how to shoot a firearm do know how to discharge aerosol spray from a can. The bear spray is apt to be better than "Baaaaad Bear". As far as believing the Federally funded studies, those researchers and authors work for the same authorities that preferred the rest of us be prohibited from carrying firearms in national parks. Which is to say, they seem to be biased for reasons other than my best interests...

 

[jmden]

Good discussion. Hopefully, it'll help all of us to think more critically if nothing else.

I like to think options are good to have. I'm no expert, but I tend to carry both bear spray and a pistol with a potent load of choice made an tested by myself. That way we/I have a non-lethal and lethal options. When my wife and kids and I hike together, usually my wife and I carry pistols and my kids carry bear spray.

Most cops out there carry spray, taser and pistol giving them options. Obviously, different situations in the field, but the 'options' idea still persists.

With the wolf story I posted in an above quote, that situation, given several factors, was suspicious enough that I went immediately to the pistol (didn't have bear spray with me--first thought was actually to take a picture, but then a split second 'situational awareness' process occurred changing my thinking) with firing a warning shot, not too mention that a spray wouldn't have reached that far--no 'warning' shots with bear spray. Perhaps a warning shot could diffuse a situation before a bear or wolf gets too close? Perhaps sometimes not.

I'm torn between carrying a higher capacity, say .40 SW for a wolf pack, and a much more potent round for a larger bear encounter. We now have the feds in this state making big push to 'recover' the grizzly population. Can someone tell them they have never left?

 

[jmden]

I have often carried a can a regular Napa break cleaner when I know I'm in a neighborhood where there are some local unfriendly dogs. It works very well in deterring even the most determined dogs. Stops them instantly and they seem to forget your even there.

Have heard that wasp spray is effective too. Still think I'd pick real bear spray if in bear country (along with a sidearm...).

 

[sp6x6]

I was texting to my Marine lance corp. son and hes had the military OC spray a couple times,olioresin capsicum.He said it is much much less potent than bear spray which would cause permanent damage to human.They get direct spray in eye and are forced to open eyes and read letters and numbers and stuff.Says a few guys where violently ill. Hes not taking bet

 

[WildRose]

Good discussion. Hopefully, it'll help all of us to think more critically if nothing else.

I like to think options are good to have. I'm no expert, but I tend to carry both bear spray and a pistol with a potent load of choice made an tested by myself. That way we/I have a non-lethal and lethal options. When my wife and kids and I hike together, usually my wife and I carry pistols and my kids carry bear spray.

Most cops out there carry spray, taser and pistol giving them options. Obviously, different situations in the field, but the 'options' idea still persists.

With the wolf story I posted in an above quote, that situation, given several factors, was suspicious enough that I went immediately to the pistol (didn't have bear spray with me--first thought was actually to take a picture, but then a split second 'situational awareness' process occurred changing my thinking) with firing a warning shot, not too mention that a spray wouldn't have reached that far--no 'warning' shots with bear spray. Perhaps a warning shot could diffuse a situation before a bear or wolf gets too close? Perhaps sometimes not.

I'm torn between carrying a higher capacity, say .40 SW for a wolf pack, and a much more potent round for a larger bear encounter. We now have the feds in this state making big push to 'recover' the grizzly population. Can someone tell them they have never left?

Look at DP hunter ammo. They make some very nice loads for both .40 and .45.I have high capacity Springfield XDM's and either one of those loaded with the heavies from DT I'd have plenty of confidence in. I've always had very good results with Double Tap.

Sadly you just don't' know who you will run into in the woods or under what circumstances so it's not a bad idea to be prepared for both two and four legged problems should they arise.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

The officials that flew out to recover the remains of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend didn't carry bear spray. And when the killer bear approached them as they approached the victims remains, they sprayed that bear with lead, not pepper. Then another brown bear approached and it met the same end.

Those bears should have been killed, they were man eaters at that point...and I am not at all opposed to killing bears in self defense...I just think my odds are better using spray, and I do know how to use a gun. And if you prefer having a gun for defense, I'm all for it. I'm just trying to bring a little more objectivity to the big picture. So I 'll leave it there

 

[Pdvdh]

Those bears should have been killed, they were man eaters at that point...and I am not at all opposed to killing bears in self defense...I just think my odds are better using spray

No disagreement that a man eating bear should be killed, if possible. And no animosity intended.

But it would be wrong to characterize the Timothy Treadwell investigation as, primarily, a bear hunt for a man eating bear. The primary mission for officials was to investigate the death, and recover the remains of, at least one dead person, and to determine the status of a second missing person. The location was a jungle of alders, which is why they never saw any bears from the air moments prior to walking up to the camp/death site.

When entering the domain of the most deadly of bears, a killer and a man eater, there's no mention of any of these men carrying bear spray, or being prepared to use bear spray. The bear approached them determinedly, head on in brushy alders, appearing at less than 15 yards. My purpose in posting this incident was to point out that when placing themselves in a life and death confrontation with a killer, man eating bear, all officials employed firearms rather than bear spray.

Survival is the first priority taught to emergency responders, since a dead responder isn't helping anyone, or anything. Neither their self survival instincts, nor their training, would have caused them to prioritize the killing of any bear, above the selection of the best bear defense possible to ensure their own survival. They all employed firearms, rather than bear spray.

 

[J E Custom]

That's very true, but "toughness" does not matter. Bears are a lot tougher than skunks but they steer clear of them. The UDAP type products get into airways and lungs and eyes, unlike other types of spray. This is very unpleasant to bears or anything else for that matter. Many bears have been deterred by these types of sprays and to the best of my knowledge they have not failed to turn away a bear when the person has had enough time to deploy the spray.

Your point is good and your opinion is respected. "BUT" If a bear decides to pick a Fight with me, he will pay dearly. I was taught never to pick a fight but to be sure I win it and with the odds in the bears favor I will use all the force I can muster. If it was legal and possible to be accurate, I would use a hand grenade.

Bear spray sounds like a good deterrent but dead is a better one and I don't want to find out that a ticked off bare will deal with the spray and get real militant. I have seen what small bears can do and even the smallest ones are not to be trifled with unless you have a death wish.

Don't get upset if others don't feel the same or have the same opinion as you (It happens to me all the time) they are just expressing there opinion on a great web site for discussions.

J E CUSTOM

 

[ARKLITE881South]

Sounds like to me, with some aerosol sprays failing, powder being temp sensitive, the only rational thing to do would be have a bayonet lug installed on the barrel of your hunting rifle and be prepared to charge. Seriously, i don't feel comfortable with a can of spay, temp sensitive powders or not, I'll always have a rifle or large cal pistol i can handle with me.