Article On "How To Deal With Long Range Skeptics"

[Ian M]

Keith,
I enjoyed your article and commend your writing ability and intent. You make a good point, are we protecting and standing-up for our sport or are we sheep. I guess I am tired of the stupidity I read, that is why I simply avoid some of the threads. But in fact you are right, we should definitely stand-up for our long range hunting abilities and sport. This is a touchy subject, not sure where it should go, since I would hate to provide the anti's with material to distort. Sad thing is a lot of the assholes who get the most wound-up about shooting past 3 or 400 yards are hunters, not the greenies or PETA's.

Life goes on, I have decided to simply reply that I can shoot out to the capability of my equipment and hope to maintain that confidence and skill. If I want to shoot farther I will obtain the necessary gear, not throw hail-maries in hopes of a lucky hit. I have found myself getting ticked-off because some very good long range shooters are wasting good reloading time putting together rebuttals or arguments on some forums that are like beating their heads against a brick wall. I believe most of the know-it-alls are internet experts in their own minds, have no real shooting capabilities or an extensive knowledge base to work from.

Fact is there are lots of guys here who would benefit from your article, guys who are new or sitting on the fence as to whether to give it a try. I wrote my note from the viewpoint of a somewhat experienced shooter, not thinking about the newbies and guys who are reading this site out of interest and not committed yet.

 

[NZ Longranger]

Guys,
Just a few quick thoughts from my perspective in NZ. The issue is the same where ever in the world you are. When I first starting writing about longrange hunting 10 or so years ago, the furore was the same as you've all experienced, all emotive arguments based on ignorance. I can't remember the number of times I've been accused of just sitting on a hill and shooting deer and not even walking over to collect them. Always by people who don't know me and have never been hunting with me.
The usual comments thrown around:

That's not hunting.
Anyone can do that.
Too lazy to stalk closer, doesn't recover his deer.
Should be shooting at cardboard cutouts, not real deer.
More chance of wounding, therefore unethical.
Its boring, too easy.

Most of these are laughable as you can see, and just another example of the tall poppie syndrome (if you've heard of that) and a chance for the whingers to have a go. They are the same people who whinge about most other topics as well.
The tricky one is the ethical question, and I agree with Shawn, its the hunter not the method who is ethical/unethical as I've seen many times.
The Longrange hunter is no different to the bowhunter, brush blaster, buckshot user or any other method of taking game. All can wound and therefore take longer to kill the animal than is ideal if done badly, and there are far more poor examples of the latter methods here in NZ. I'm sure this applies in the US as well.
The Hunting Forums here in NZ have been interesting to study over the last 10 years. Initially the debate would have been 90% against long range hunting, but now its closer to 75% the other way, with the odd whinger getting a blasting from the long range hunters who frequent these sites. I know from all the hunters I guide how things have changed, with a lot saying when they arrive they dont want to hunt longrange, but by the end of the hunt they want to beat their mate's shot by 100 yards, and then another 100 and so one, especially when they miss at close range with their own rifles. They come back hunting with me again just to further their longest shot, sort of a different form of trophy hunting, scoring yards not points.
These are always the guys who were most vehemently against it at the start. Always gives me a quiet chuckle!
long range hunting is the fastest growing hunting recreation here in NZ, as people upgrade their gear and gradually realise what its capable of. They extend their capabilities as they feel comfortable and develop a whole lot more satisfaction from their hunting. If getting more game is your objective, long range hunting will achieve that. For some hunters, that is their motivation. The retailers also have changed significantly as they realise the long range hunting hunter buys far more gear and spends far more money! Unfortunately the skill and intelligence level of the average retailer in this country is somewhat lacking, but the hunters are learning what they want from the likes of my articles in the magazines and the forums like long range hunting, and are requesting the right equipment despite some of the small minded salesmen.
What I'm trying to say is there is a quiet revolution going on behind the scenes and the dribblers are getting left behind. You'll never change them, just move around them and carry on. Answer worthy questions when they come up and don't get into arguments with the unreasonable. Let actions speak louder than rhetoric, be true to your own ethics and the truth will always eventually get out!
Maybe I'm a born optimist, glass half full type of guy, but that's what I believe.

Keith, my family enjoyed your article and like your perspective. We agree with most of your comments but leave the shooting through brush bit out, I've done that before to finish animals and there are too many variables such as thickneess, how close the brush is to animal etc to be definitive. If this sort of article is posted, I think it should be a closed reference only type of thread to satisfy the need to present good infromation without starting destructive arguments.

Man, so much for a quick reply!!!!!

 

[TheSollyLama]

The article I wrote was just meant to be general. Since it's not in response to any one article or attack, I couldn't make specific counter points. We can certainly break down any specific attack. This was just a general article.

As for starting off with my limited mobility- I avoided that because it immediately makes the article about me. Also, that is sort of cherry picking one extreme circumstance. The point is to make long range hunting acceptable for all hunters that take the time and invest in quality equipment. Not just 'excuse' it for cripples.

I rather liked the brush busting comparison specifically because it is something very commonly done, but runs a higher risk of that "what if" effect than putting lead through alot of empty air.
Alot of the anti-long range hunting arguments revolve around "what ifs" that increase over distance. Pointing out that distance doesn't add anymore of those 'what ifs' than the kind of hunting.

We could just do up a point by point debunking of specific arguments. Just list arguments against and their counterpoint. That would be a good sticky for the general forum as reference material.

 

[Len Backus]

I haven't forgotten about this, just letting it simmer a little.

 

[Shawn Carlock]

I kind of like the idea of the point by point rebuttal. Maybe a "long range hunting myths" article, where you take the points above and put them in a statement form with a rebuttal for each. I think that a format like that would take a less defensive posture. I also had not given alot of thought to newbie shooters or on the fence maybe want to try it guys. I really don't care what is said on other sites (that is why I rarely go anywhere but here). However it could be an advantage to this site in welcoming the new guy or interested but not sure guy to our sport.

 

[TheSollyLama]

the only problem with a point by point list is that it's rather dry.

A full article is more conversational and does more to capture a reader's attention than a collection of bullet points.

But a living document of point by point counter-arguments is still a good idea, one that writer's guild members could modify as time goes on to respond to new criticism.