Arizona ban on trail cams

[Mike Matteson]

So be it. I don't see any fees for people taking pictures. Maybe they will need to stay outside the forest during hunting season. I feel it's a bunch of BST.

 

[LVJ76]

Thats why its called hunting and not killing. And yes killing something is the icing on the cake.

For us it's time spent together and a fun time

 

[105Coues]

It's being abused by people watching their phone blow up with big stud critters, sending a guy in the area to that cam location and taking wildlife. Its also in line with drones and piloted aircraft. They are mostly restricted for the same reason. Its not "fair chase". Unscrupulous people/ guides will be the ones cheating the system. I was the victim of one of those "guides". He's out of business, forever.

Fair chase has been gone a long time. A dozen guys out looking for a trophy buck or bull and the one who finds it calls the client on a cell phone to come shoot it. Hardly fair chase IMO. However this is a slippery slope I believe mostly caused by people conflicts. If only people would just have respect for each other's freedoms whether they agree with the or not. I don't advocate making them illegal but if they do I will will respect the decision. That being said I have always liked getting pics year round cause you never know what you will get. Even with tons of pics over the years I have never killed a critter i have a pic of. Too many loopholes in what is written now. No teeth in the bill so it will be abused. My concern is it creates Conflict. If someone steals or destroyed your stuff whether you are a hunter or not. Everyone you see you are wondering if that is the JA who stole your chit. Now instead of seeing someone in the field and possibly making a new friend you will automatically be ticked off. This only creates more issues imo. I would rather they outlaw them all together as the last thing we need in society these daysis is our band of blood brothers fighting amongst ourselves.
What the commission has done will only make things way worse and will ultimately lead to a flood of calls to the Hotline even fo legal cams and more conflicts between people. This is never a good thing and will result in a ban in time.

Enjoy our Independence Day my brothers and thank a veteran or soldier for your FREEDOM! Remember we have what the rest of the world desires, let's not cuck it up.

 

[105Coues]

Yes, that's correct. I agree with the ban after listening to the AZGFD wildlife biologists and the scientific data they presented. The thinking about what's fair chase and how we've pushed the limits with Optics, range finders, better rifles, mapping programs, Ballistic apps, radios and phones in the field, etc…. Then I read the Fair Chase Statements of the Boone and Crocket and Pope and Young clubs and I must say I now believe in the full ban. It's not as the Elk, deer, and other critters are getting any faster, invisible, or have any improvements in their ability to escape detection, if anything at all it's gotten way worse for them. There's got to be a end point to the technical assistance we get. Anyways I'm sure there will be some that oppose my view and I'm fine with that also.

While I agree with some of your thinking I offer food for thought. you must also believe the "one to one" B&C reference means that these large groups of guides or friends hunting and animal is not fair chase? Every year stud animals are killed with pics of a bunch of guys were out looking for a specific animal for the client or friend and are put in the record books. When I was a youngster I thought highly of the record books. Now that I am a bit wiser and know how the rules to enter are abused, I don't think much of them other than it I say a great way for a magnificent animal to be recognized. Not judging one way or the other but I personally don't buy the fair chase argument. My .02

 

[JAYgs8163]

While I agree with some of your thinking I offer food for thought. you must also believe the "one to one" B&C reference means that these large groups of guides or friends hunting and animal is not fair chase? Every year stud animals are killed with pics of a bunch of guys were out looking for a specific animal for the client or friend and are put in the record books. When I was a youngster I thought highly of the record books. Now that I am a bit wiser and know how the rules to enter are abused, I don't think much of them other than it I say a great way for a magnificent animal to be recognized. Not judging one way or the other but I personally don't buy the fair chase argument. My .02

I don't hunt with "large groups of guides or friends" and yes to answer your question, I would say that's not fair Chase either. Heck, I can't afford to hire one guide.

 

[105Coues]

I am with ya brother! Have a great day!

 

[Bob Wright]

It's not just Arizona apparently.

 

[TexasSportsman]

A friend asked me about the use of technology to feed their family. He disagreed with how humans used to hunt and how they hunt today. I explained to him that the Native Americans that shared the same grassy fields as the bison used to chase those bison off of a cliff. The woman and children were near the bottom of the cliff to readily kill what didn't die in the fall. They quickly made use of their primitive knives to skin and debone the carcass. The bones themselves were taken to make tools and weapons. If the Native Americans were to use the same technique today they'd themselves would be skewered.

If we go back further the humans would jump a deer or elk. They would struggle to bring the animal down and kill it. I am sure that those early humans suffered losses at the hoofs and antlers. I am also sure they were smart enough to realize that losing a human or two to injury or death was not sustainable. Some where they learned to make spears and attach rocks to a short stout branch to make a club by which they were able to incapacitate their dinner without losing members of their tribe.

As humans evolved they invented the bow and arrow which mean they didn't have to get so close to their prey to bring home dinner. They were able to grow and expand their tribe. As their hunting tools became more sophisticated they were able to feed a growing population.

Then gunpowder was invented and before long firearms came along. The better to bring home dinner and to fend off other humans that wanted to take what the other humans worked hard to accumulate; women, children, clothing, tools and land.

You see we have to develop more creative and innovative ways to bring home dinner. Then the lever rifles came. The native Americans were defeated and their source of food, clothing, tools, shelter, etc were slaughtered outright by hunters hired by the US Government. How do you feed a growing nation? Get as many hunters out there to nearly wipe out geese, ducks, deer, elk, etc. They were called market hunters. This was well before raising cattle, pigs, chickens as well as cereal grain on a commercial level large enough to feed the millions.

The good ole Teddy Roosevelt came along. The great outdoorsman who was the first president to see the need to protect our wildlife lest we eat every last one of them. Limits were placed, hunting seasons were established in order for the population of the wildlife to become sustainable again.

Fast forward to the late 20th and early 21 century. I have heard this time and time again that the population of American Whitetail today exceeds the population of whitetail before the market hunters severely dented the population. If what the experts had been telling us is true about the population of whitetail, how are we going to control that deer population so it doesn't starve itself to death or become a problem on golf courses and suburban neighborhoods...Oh wait!

Now lets look at feral hogs. They are a huge problem and getting bigger. So now you cannot use game cameras in AZ? See how foolish the idea is? If you had one and were using it to get a jump on the hog problem how much trouble would you get into?

I am glad I live in Texas where we don't have issues like that. I know people that use game cameras to track game, poachers and the occasional punk kid that rides is dirt bike on property that he has no permission to be on.

I see the reversal of this law sometime in the future.

 

[JAYgs8163]

A friend asked me about the use of technology to feed their family. He disagreed with how humans used to hunt and how they hunt today. I explained to him that the Native Americans that shared the same grassy fields as the bison used to chase those bison off of a cliff. The woman and children were near the bottom of the cliff to readily kill what didn't die in the fall. They quickly made use of their primitive knives to skin and debone the carcass. The bones themselves were taken to make tools and weapons. If the Native Americans were to use the same technique today they'd themselves would be skewered.

If we go back further the humans would jump a deer or elk. They would struggle to bring the animal down and kill it. I am sure that those early humans suffered losses at the hoofs and antlers. I am also sure they were smart enough to realize that losing a human or two to injury or death was not sustainable. Some where they learned to make spears and attach rocks to a short stout branch to make a club by which they were able to incapacitate their dinner without losing members of their tribe.

As humans evolved they invented the bow and arrow which mean they didn't have to get so close to their prey to bring home dinner. They were able to grow and expand their tribe. As their hunting tools became more sophisticated they were able to feed a growing population.

Then gunpowder was invented and before long firearms came along. The better to bring home dinner and to fend off other humans that wanted to take what the other humans worked hard to accumulate; women, children, clothing, tools and land.

You see we have to develop more creative and innovative ways to bring home dinner. Then the lever rifles came. The native Americans were defeated and their source of food, clothing, tools, shelter, etc were slaughtered outright by hunters hired by the US Government. How do you feed a growing nation? Get as many hunters out there to nearly wipe out geese, ducks, deer, elk, etc. They were called market hunters. This was well before raising cattle, pigs, chickens as well as cereal grain on a commercial level large enough to feed the millions.

The good ole Teddy Roosevelt came along. The great outdoorsman who was the first president to see the need to protect our wildlife lest we eat every last one of them. Limits were placed, hunting seasons were established in order for the population of the wildlife to become sustainable again.

Fast forward to the late 20th and early 21 century. I have heard this time and time again that the population of American Whitetail today exceeds the population of whitetail before the market hunters severely dented the population. If what the experts had been telling us is true about the population of whitetail, how are we going to control that deer population so it doesn't starve itself to death or become a problem on golf courses and suburban neighborhoods...Oh wait!

Now lets look at feral hogs. They are a huge problem and getting bigger. So now you cannot use game cameras in AZ? See how foolish the idea is? If you had one and were using it to get a jump on the hog problem how much trouble would you get into?

I am glad I live in Texas where we don't have issues like that. I know people that use game cameras to track game, poachers and the occasional punk kid that rides is dirt bike on property that he has no permission to be on.

I see the reversal of this law sometime in the future.

Correct, you can't use trail cams to assist in the taking of Wildgame.

I don't see it as foolish. Comparing Az hunting to Texas is like comparing apples and oranges.

We have no feral hogs in Az.

 

[LVJ76]

Correct, you can't use trail cams to assist in the taking of Wildgame.

I don't see it as foolish. Comparing Az hunting to Texas is like comparing apples and oranges.

We have no feral hogs in Az.

More like Apples and Watermelons.

 

[Bob Wright]

A friend asked me about the use of technology to feed their family. He disagreed with how humans used to hunt and how they hunt today. I explained to him that the Native Americans that shared the same grassy fields as the bison used to chase those bison off of a cliff. The woman and children were near the bottom of the cliff to readily kill what didn't die in the fall. They quickly made use of their primitive knives to skin and debone the carcass. The bones themselves were taken to make tools and weapons. If the Native Americans were to use the same technique today they'd themselves would be skewered.

If we go back further the humans would jump a deer or elk. They would struggle to bring the animal down and kill it. I am sure that those early humans suffered losses at the hoofs and antlers. I am also sure they were smart enough to realize that losing a human or two to injury or death was not sustainable. Some where they learned to make spears and attach rocks to a short stout branch to make a club by which they were able to incapacitate their dinner without losing members of their tribe.

As humans evolved they invented the bow and arrow which mean they didn't have to get so close to their prey to bring home dinner. They were able to grow and expand their tribe. As their hunting tools became more sophisticated they were able to feed a growing population.

Then gunpowder was invented and before long firearms came along. The better to bring home dinner and to fend off other humans that wanted to take what the other humans worked hard to accumulate; women, children, clothing, tools and land.

You see we have to develop more creative and innovative ways to bring home dinner. Then the lever rifles came. The native Americans were defeated and their source of food, clothing, tools, shelter, etc were slaughtered outright by hunters hired by the US Government. How do you feed a growing nation? Get as many hunters out there to nearly wipe out geese, ducks, deer, elk, etc. They were called market hunters. This was well before raising cattle, pigs, chickens as well as cereal grain on a commercial level large enough to feed the millions.

The good ole Teddy Roosevelt came along. The great outdoorsman who was the first president to see the need to protect our wildlife lest we eat every last one of them. Limits were placed, hunting seasons were established in order for the population of the wildlife to become sustainable again.

Fast forward to the late 20th and early 21 century. I have heard this time and time again that the population of American Whitetail today exceeds the population of whitetail before the market hunters severely dented the population. If what the experts had been telling us is true about the population of whitetail, how are we going to control that deer population so it doesn't starve itself to death or become a problem on golf courses and suburban neighborhoods...Oh wait!

Now lets look at feral hogs. They are a huge problem and getting bigger. So now you cannot use game cameras in AZ? See how foolish the idea is? If you had one and were using it to get a jump on the hog problem how much trouble would you get into?

I am glad I live in Texas where we don't have issues like that. I know people that use game cameras to track game, poachers and the occasional punk kid that rides is dirt bike on property that he has no permission to be on.

I see the reversal of this law sometime in the future.

Arizona hunting and Texas hunting cannot be compared. It's massively private there, hogs are not a problem in Texas (it's a revenue source for landowners or they would be extinct already). We don't use feeders, cultivate plots, sell hunts on private property, import African animals, cull hunt, etc, etc.
We have limited tags, fierce competition applying for the chance and it's getting worse every single year.
I could only say that the small population of people using them and selling the Intel, ruined it for everyone.
If you have private property here and have a need for them, I don't think the enforcement arm of G&F are concerned. Public lands is ~85% in AZ, excluding reservation land. That public land is shrinking.
Most of the country is privately held outside of the few states with state trust, BLM and National forests. Many of the western states have intense pressure on those lands for hunting, recreating.
There is ZERO comparison.

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

Yes, that's correct. I agree with the ban after listening to the AZGFD wildlife biologists and the scientific data they presented. The thinking about what's fair chase and how we've pushed the limits with Optics, range finders, better rifles, mapping programs, Ballistic apps, radios and phones in the field, etc…. Then I read the Fair Chase Statements of the Boone and Crocket and Pope and Young clubs and I must say I now believe in the full ban. It's not as the Elk, deer, and other critters are getting any faster, invisible, or have any improvements in their ability to escape detection, if anything at all it's gotten way worse for them. There's got to be a end point to the technical assistance we get. Anyways I'm sure there will be some that oppose my view and I'm fine with that also.

You agree with the government telling landowners they are not allowed to monitor their own property?

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

Arizona hunting and Texas hunting cannot be compared. It's massively private there, hogs are not a problem in Texas (it's a revenue source for landowners or they would be extinct already). We don't use feeders, cultivate plots, sell hunts on private property, import African animals, cull hunt, etc, etc.
We have limited tags, fierce competition applying for the chance and it's getting worse every single year.
I could only say that the small population of people using them and selling the Intel, ruined it for everyone.
If you have private property here and have a need for them, I don't think the enforcement arm of G&F are concerned. Public lands is ~85% in AZ, excluding reservation land. That public land is shrinking.
Most of the country is privately held outside of the few states with state trust, BLM and National forests. Many of the western states have intense pressure on those lands for hunting, recreating.
There is ZERO comparison.

"I don't think the enforcement arm are concerned" Well then why didn't they exclude it...it would have been very easy. This will be abused.

 

[JAYgs8163]

You agree with the government telling landowners they are not allowed to monitor their own property?

No I don't. They still can monitor their property as long as they don't use the camera to assist in taking of Wildgame. That's not the issue we have in Az, 85-90% of the land we hunt is public. 100% of the land I hunt is public.