anybody ever attended a schhoting school

[bowkill02]

has anyboy on here ever attended r.w.Hart's long range hunting school, or any other school like it. i live in southeastern Pa and i am really looking into a school to help me build upon the skills i already possess, and i am extremely surprised at the cost of such schools. i dont mind spending the money but finding one the someone recommends is becoming a chore. the hart school aint to far from where i live so i thought i may check into it, just wondering if it would be 4days of a sales pitch. any help would be appreciated

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I was sent to a few civilan run schools when I was in the Military. I learned more in a week of shooting with them, than I had in the 4 years of service I had to that point. 9 years later I'm still using the things I learned their to teach others.

Bottom line is most our worth it as long as you can vet the instructors. Their are alot of other schools out their you could shop around. I bet if you PM some of the member in PA you could go shooting with them and learn.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Long Range Firing School, at Camp Perry after the Nationals. Used to be run by Mid Tompkins, and was co-instructed by the AMU guys and members of the Marine Rifle team. Classroom courses in the evening during the matches themselves, and then we had four days of firing on the range, complete with wind classes, position coaching, the whole deal. wound up firing a couple matches at the end of gthe course, with Carlos Hathcock (his son, who was then still a member of the Marine team) serving as my coach. Great stuff, and a very well run course.

 

[BigSkyGP]

I have a question, I think it fits this discussion.

Learning to shoot. In shooting you always learn, and there is always room for improvement.

How does one know one has become competent?

How does one know if once a good shooter that they are still competent?

Is it confidence in one's own abilities with a rifle?

Is it measurable, does one measure against other shooters, competition? Is it measured by averages, repeatability, being able to go out judge wind & distance and strike where the rifle is pointed at any given time, every time?

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Good questions!

You set goals, for one. Easier for competitive shooters since there's a benchmark to measure yourself by, and usually a series of markers along the way. For a Service Rifle shooter, there's the Distinguished Rifleman's badge, and The President's Hundred. Earn those two, and you're a true Service Rifle shooter. Other benchmarks you can set for yourself, such as making High Master classification with the Service Rifle, instead of with a Match Rifle. In Silhouette, there's the Grand Slam; ten animals in a row on all four banks of targets. Or, just moving up in classificaton, from AA, to AAA, or even Master. Same for any other type of shooting competitons, from Bullseye, to Smallbore Prone, 3-P, 4-P, etc..

I'm firmly convinced that those benchmarks, and the hardline goals set along the way are what draw some people to competitive shooting, and drives other away from it. Some people don't like finding or being reminded of their limitations. Competitive shooters need such indicators, and focus their energies on improving on those areas. There's no BS'ing a scoreboard. Either you performed, or you didn't, and it's there for all to see.

 

[tlk]

My answer to Bowkills post: if you are looking for a REALLY good and reliable school on the cheap - good luck. If you find one, PM me with the details. Better bet is to search for quality above everything else. The folks that know what they are doing charge the money for it because they can - people are willing to pay to get that knowledge, and those that are willing to pay USUALLY have deeper pockets than most, thus the market price. I think that this is probably one of the most under-analyzed facets of this activity - the costs of the learning curve can be quite high, as much as a custom rifle, sans scope. I seriously think that the cost for a civilian to gain this knowledge, the requisite equipment and a high level of proficiency is about $5K on the LOW end when it is ALL taken into account. But hey, after that is only bullets, powder and primer, right ?!?! Not like fishing or golf or anything....

 

[ubettcha13]

You pay for your education no matter what the field of learning.
If you go to a "cheap" school you will get a "cheap" education. I took a course on shooting a shotgun for sporting clays. The instructor was a former world record holder in sporting clays. I won 2 state championships after that. I had already won my first one before that. The problem targets I had were quickly solved. The only targets I had problems with after that school were from the loose screw behind the trigger guard.
My long range shooting was learned initially in the army. I competed in club matches in the 1980's and learned alot more why??? I've come to realize that you can only learm more when your ready to learn it.
Meaning if you go to school and you still haven't learned the basics of marksmanship detailed elsewhere on this site. Most of the finer points will be not realized the first time through a class. If you were to video tape your form while you shoot you can learn if you have anything that needs to be corrected before going to school. Again education isn't free how you learn should determine how you should pursue your education.
If you do best by repetition I strongly suggest a video camera and coach. If you do better watching others a group type class would be a better approach. Knowing what you require to grasp a concept is going to be the best way for you to progress at this sport.
Good Luck

 

[TomYoung]

Bowkill,

I attended a shooting class at Gunsite near Prescott, AZ in '09. It was pricey for my budget, but I thought it was worth it. Highly qualified instructors. Gunsite courses are mostly for Military and LE, but they do have a basic hunter course. That course has as a prerequisite a basic rifle class. They conduct the two three day courses consecutively. They have a nice campground. Gunsite.com

Tom

 

[BigSkyGP]

Good questions!

You set goals, for one. Easier for competitive shooters since there's a benchmark to measure yourself by, and usually a series of markers along the way. For a Service Rifle shooter, there's the Distinguished Rifleman's badge, and The President's Hundred. Earn those two, and you're a true Service Rifle shooter. Other benchmarks you can set for yourself, such as making High Master classification with the Service Rifle, instead of with a Match Rifle. In Silhouette, there's the Grand Slam; ten animals in a row on all four banks of targets. Or, just moving up in classificaton, from AA, to AAA, or even Master. Same for any other type of shooting competitons, from Bullseye, to Smallbore Prone, 3-P, 4-P, etc..

I'm firmly convinced that those benchmarks, and the hardline goals set along the way are what draw some people to competitive shooting, and drives other away from it. Some people don't like finding or being reminded of their limitations. Competitive shooters need such indicators, and focus their energies on improving on those areas. There's no BS'ing a scoreboard. Either you performed, or you didn't, and it's there for all to see.

Thanks for the reply. The thought came to mind while reading the thread, adn thought I'd put the question to the forum.

Are there shoots sponsored or advertised by LRH, so the members meet, and have the oportunity to put their mouth where their money is?

 

[bowkill02]

thanks fellas, i know there are many different opinions on "shooting"and "education" and i know we all learn different. my friends round here dont seem to share in the same hobby as i do so shooting with friends has prooved to be difficult, and learning from them had prooved almost impossible. i am confident in my basics but that is because i keep telling my self im doing ok, i want someone to tell me different, so i can build on myself and grow with my sport. again i want to thatk all of you for tuning in and helping me on my way

 

[Kevin Thomas]

BigSky,

Don't know any sponsored by LRH, but I probably wouldn't be the one to ask. A far as general competitive shooting, the NRA is the US governing body for most forms of competition. Long Ragne Firing School was a bonus for me, and it was a grat course. A totla of $180 if I recall correctly, for about six days of instruction, both classroom and range. Best LR shooters in the world, nar none, serving as your instructors, on a one-on-one basis. Mid Tompkins was the primary instructor, and his wife Nancy Tompkins-Gallagher was one of the coaches. There was also SSG Emil Praslick of the AMU, GYSGT Carlos Hathcock USMC, several members of the Palma team and Michelle and Sherri Gallagher (current US National Champ). As excellent as the course was, the real learning takes place in the matches you shot leading up to that. By the time we attended the course, most of us were already pretty competent LR shooters and had a fair amount of competition under our belts. Just spending time on the line, talking to other shoters and actually dealing with wind, weather conditions and various equipment is the education.

Thre are some matches that are sponsored, but it's not a real big factor in rifle competitions like it is in some handgun sports. Check with the CMP (Civillian Marksmanship Program) or the NRA Competitions dept. for info on the various matches and types of competition in your area. They'll also be able to put you in touch with whoever you need to get signed up. The rest of it, is just showing up and going from there. Friendliest bunch of folks you'll ever meet, and hands down the best learning opportunity out there for shooting LR.

 

[trebark]

has anyboy on here ever attended r.w.Hart's long range hunting school, or any other school like it. i live in southeastern Pa and i am really looking into a school to help me build upon the skills i already possess, and i am extremely surprised at the cost of such schools. i dont mind spending the money but finding one the someone recommends is becoming a chore. the hart school aint to far from where i live so i thought i may check into it, just wondering if it would be 4days of a sales pitch. any help would be appreciated

Me and a couple of buddies took a multi-day class with Ed Shell at Central Virginia Tactical. Ed had a 'classroom' in western Maryland, so it's probably not too far from you in Eastern PA. The price was reasonable and the knowledge gained was invaluable. Ed will talk with you before hand to be sure to customize the class to your current proficiency and what you want to gain. He will work with you individually or in small groups. I should also add that I would highly recommend Ed to you.

You can read the write-up my buddy wrote about the class we took here:

AAR: Training at CVT with Ed Shell - Maryland Shooters

You can find Ed's contact info here:

Maryland Shooters - View Profile: E.Shell

 

[trebark]

I have a question, I think it fits this discussion.

Learning to shoot. In shooting you always learn, and there is always room for improvement.

How does one know one has become competent?

How does one know if once a good shooter that they are still competent?

Is it confidence in one's own abilities with a rifle?

Is it measurable, does one measure against other shooters, competition? Is it measured by averages, repeatability, being able to go out judge wind & distance and strike where the rifle is pointed at any given time, every time?

Good questions!

You set goals, for one. Easier for competitive shooters since there's a benchmark to measure yourself by, and usually a series of markers along the way. For a Service Rifle shooter, there's the Distinguished Rifleman's badge, and The President's Hundred. Earn those two, and you're a true Service Rifle shooter. Other benchmarks you can set for yourself, such as making High Master classification with the Service Rifle, instead of with a Match Rifle. In Silhouette, there's the Grand Slam; ten animals in a row on all four banks of targets. Or, just moving up in classificaton, from AA, to AAA, or even Master. Same for any other type of shooting competitons, from Bullseye, to Smallbore Prone, 3-P, 4-P, etc..

I'm firmly convinced that those benchmarks, and the hardline goals set along the way are what draw some people to competitive shooting, and drives other away from it. Some people don't like finding or being reminded of their limitations. Competitive shooters need such indicators, and focus their energies on improving on those areas. There's no BS'ing a scoreboard. Either you performed, or you didn't, and it's there for all to see.

I would also add that part of the outcome from a good shooting class is confidence. Having an increased knowledge in how to recognize the factors that will influence your shot and how to appropriate compensate for them. You might not necessarily dope the shot just right on the first try, but you will be able to determine why you missed.

Making first round hits is nice, but knowing why you missed is just as valuable.

 

[KurtPiet]

Would love to but never seem to have the time or the money at the same time. One of these days things will come together and I'll go but till then I'll just work on what I can and try to pick up new things along the way.