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7mm Round Selection/Rangefinder

Brydawg512

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
445
Location
Idaho
Hello all,

I am very new into the long range hunting/shooting world. I have a Winchester 70 chambered in 7mm rem mag. I just recently purchased a Vortex PST 4-16x50 to go on this rifle. I hunt black bear, deer, elk, and cougar with this rifle. I will be shooting a max of 600 yards at game animals.

So, unfortunately I do not have access to reloading equipment so I need to choose a round that will sufficiently take thess animals down at this range. Any recommendations?

Additionally, I need to find a rangefinder that will accurately give me yardage. Hopefully under the $150 mark, but $200 is my top price point as of now. Any recommendations?

Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to help.
 
Also, I am in need of a spotting scope. I have a gift card to best buy, but not sure if any of their scopes are suitable? Celestron brand?
 
Have hammer bullets will do load development for you. Not only will you have optimized your rifle bullet combo you will get the data so when you do start to load you already have the recipe for success. If you decide not to reload hammer or copper creek can load for you with what works for your gun.
https://hammerbullets.com/services/
Up your range finder budget to 329 and get a Nikon 4k black. Or even the 3000 stabilized closer to 299 during these black friday sales. You'll save 100-120$
 
Hornady makes a set of loads that are excellent for this, so does HSM. I'm not a fan of lead free so there aren't any below. All are solid game killers and will have enough stomp left over at 600 to cleanly take down the animals on your list. Watch your wind call and air temperature when making long shots. If you're new to LR, then start by getting to be a solid reliable shot under field conditions at long range, then make stuff bleed. Up to 300yrds not so big a deal. 300-500 starts to be a real PITA on the wind calls sometimes. >500 yrds little things become a big deal fast.

https://www.midwayusa.com/7mm-remington-magnum/br?cid=22162
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...mm-remington-magnum-162-grain-eld-x-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-7mm-remington-magnum-154-grain-sst-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...-7mm-remington-magnum-162-grain-sst-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...-hunting-vld-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-hunting-vld-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20
 
512, Best Buy only has two golf range finders. The HSM 7mm mag ammo with the 168gr Bergers is a good choice. I've hand loaded this bullet for 6 or 7 rifles in 7mag which all were very accurate. Post a "want to buy" ad here under optics for sale for a range finder, you might pick one up within your budget. Good luck
 
I started out not reloading and shooting a 7mm rem. I bought the 162 ELDX and was very happy. My goal was to be able to make a 500 yard shot. I was able to go to 1000 yards on the 1st day. You can search here for results of the 162 ELDX on game.


Find ammo that you can afford to buy a lot so you can practice. There should be ammo deals now.

I wouldn't buy a bunch until I am sure the gun likes it.
 
Ok great! Thank you all for the recommendations! Yes, it was a disappointment that my best buy gift card doesn't get me anything in the rangefinder realm. I've heard good things about the Sig Kilo 2000 too. So, I guess I will need to look around.
 
Have hammer bullets will do load development for you. Not only will you have optimized your rifle bullet combo you will get the data so when you do start to load you already have the recipe for success. If you decide not to reload hammer or copper creek can load for you with what works for your gun.
https://hammerbullets.com/services/
Up your range finder budget to 329 and get a Nikon 4k black. Or even the 3000 stabilized closer to 299 during these black friday sales. You'll save 100-120$
Great, thank you for the reference!
 
Hornady makes a set of loads that are excellent for this, so does HSM. I'm not a fan of lead free so there aren't any below. All are solid game killers and will have enough stomp left over at 600 to cleanly take down the animals on your list. Watch your wind call and air temperature when making long shots. If you're new to LR, then start by getting to be a solid reliable shot under field conditions at long range, then make stuff bleed. Up to 300yrds not so big a deal. 300-500 starts to be a real PITA on the wind calls sometimes. >500 yrds little things become a big deal fast.

https://www.midwayusa.com/7mm-remington-magnum/br?cid=22162
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...mm-remington-magnum-162-grain-eld-x-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-7mm-remington-magnum-154-grain-sst-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...-7mm-remington-magnum-162-grain-sst-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...-hunting-vld-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-hunting-vld-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20

Thank you! Yes, I refuse to shoot at an animal unless I am 100% confident I can make an ethical, clean shot. Once I get the scope mounted and ammo selected, practice starts to get me ready for next season. Question for you. Is there a way to accurately determine wind so I know how much to hold off/dial? Also, with air temp, can I average the temp so I can get my dope, considering I may not have a long time to calculate with the exact temp on an animal? Thank you!
 
512, Best Buy only has two golf range finders. The HSM 7mm mag ammo with the 168gr Bergers is a good choice. I've hand loaded this bullet for 6 or 7 rifles in 7mag which all were very accurate. Post a "want to buy" ad here under optics for sale for a range finder, you might pick one up within your budget. Good luck

Yes, I had seen the HSM 168gr Berger VLDs and they seemed to look good. I will be sure to post a "want to buy" once I gain the right to do that (when am I able to do thi?).
 
Question for you. Is there a way to accurately determine wind so I know how much to hold off/dial? Also, with air temp, can I average the temp so I can get my dope, considering I may not have a long time to calculate with the exact temp on an animal? Thank you!

Well this turned into a long answer. Sorry for the wall-o-text.

The term "accurate" is relative. Learning to read wind mirage and the swaying of trees/shrubs/grasses is going to be your best bet for field expedient accurate wind calls and it's also the hardest thing to get proficient at. It truly is an art as much as a science.

Air temperature is going to matter in terms of 20F increments for drops, not 5F and with a 7RM and any of those loads it will matter in terms of 1 click (.25MOA or .1MRAD) with the loads above to something well over 1000 yards. You'll need a 40F difference to matter 1 click of drop at 600 yards with the loads above. It's something to be aware of but not to get preoccupied over.

Wind is another matter entirely. It has a velocity component and a direction and both of those will be affected by terrain. Speed of wind is also variable based on the height of the projectile above the ground (winds can be nearly non existent a few inches from the ground yet quite pronounced just a couple meters up). Since long range shooting involves trajectories that can put the bullet potentially substantially above the line of sight it's important to know how far above LOS it'll go and how much of its flight will be there and to keep that in your head for the wind call. All that said, 600 yards with a 7mag is darned near a chip shot. Something around 2.5mils of up and 1 mil of over in a full value 10mph wind. You can nearly hold on-hair on a large deer without adjusting and still make that hit... nearly. To ~400 yards, you can just about get away with holding "on hair" with a 7mag and just adjust for wind.

To break that out into familiar terms of linear measures: Using a 7mag with any of the loads above, a full value 10mph wind at 600 yards is going to make for about 18 inches (3MOA) of drift. 10mph is not a small wind. Down around 3-5mph the difference is closer to 10 inches of drift. It's when it gets stronger than about 15mph that it gets very hard to estimate (trees only sway so much, mirage becomes less helpful) and the drift at 15mph is something near 30 inches which could amount to a cruel wound or a clean miss real easy. Above 15mph you're best off not taking the shot IMHO. Wind meters like those from Kestrel and Caldwell and such only tell you what's going on where you are but in the real world, unless you're hunting somewhere shaped like a table top your reading will be affected by land forms, vegetation, sampling elevation, etc...

Once you've got the wind velocity, then you need to find the wind angle relative to the shot, find the angle cosine for that and multiply that by your indicated wind adjustment. I find it a lot easier to bracket the wind but that also requires me to keep my shot distances pretty short by my standards and I don't like to take shots at game in winds over 15mph. I get nervous when I do.

A wind call example that might give perspective: My last shot on game that had any wind worth mentioning was a 150gn GameKing from a .308win on a 220+ yard shot in a heavy wind. It was taken over very short scrub brush at a springbok (an African antelope about the size of a large dog or very small blacktail deer). I couldn't get a good read on vegetation sway but it was howlin' so I guessed that it was >20mph. The wind was so severe that had the buck been any further away and I wouldn't have taken the shot. He was head down with his nose at the same elevation as his shoulder so I held the crosshair on his nose and hit the loud switch. The bullet hit the heart square in the middle. Total wind drift was something very close to 12 inches, which verified my wind call as much as my wind DOPE. That's experience + skills and I was still a little iffy on taking the shot in those conditions but after 23 hours on airplanes to get there I wasn't keen on passing up much.

I do offer products and associated services for creating nearly indestructible DOPE cards that are meant for field use cases where one shot is all you get that takes care of most of the figuring for you and they are easy to use when you can't think straight. If you'd like to discuss those things specifically, PM me.
 
Well this turned into a long answer. Sorry for the wall-o-text.

The term "accurate" is relative. Learning to read wind mirage and the swaying of trees/shrubs/grasses is going to be your best bet for field expedient accurate wind calls and it's also the hardest thing to get proficient at. It truly is an art as much as a science.

Air temperature is going to matter in terms of 20F increments for drops, not 5F and with a 7RM and any of those loads it will matter in terms of 1 click (.25MOA or .1MRAD) with the loads above to something well over 1000 yards. You'll need a 40F difference to matter 1 click of drop at 600 yards with the loads above. It's something to be aware of but not to get preoccupied over.

Wind is another matter entirely. It has a velocity component and a direction and both of those will be affected by terrain. Speed of wind is also variable based on the height of the projectile above the ground (winds can be nearly non existent a few inches from the ground yet quite pronounced just a couple meters up). Since long range shooting involves trajectories that can put the bullet potentially substantially above the line of sight it's important to know how far above LOS it'll go and how much of its flight will be there and to keep that in your head for the wind call. All that said, 600 yards with a 7mag is darned near a chip shot. Something around 2.5mils of up and 1 mil of over in a full value 10mph wind. You can nearly hold on-hair on a large deer without adjusting and still make that hit... nearly. To ~400 yards, you can just about get away with holding "on hair" with a 7mag and just adjust for wind.

To break that out into familiar terms of linear measures: Using a 7mag with any of the loads above, a full value 10mph wind at 600 yards is going to make for about 18 inches (3MOA) of drift. 10mph is not a small wind. Down around 3-5mph the difference is closer to 10 inches of drift. It's when it gets stronger than about 15mph that it gets very hard to estimate (trees only sway so much, mirage becomes less helpful) and the drift at 15mph is something near 30 inches which could amount to a cruel wound or a clean miss real easy. Above 15mph you're best off not taking the shot IMHO. Wind meters like those from Kestrel and Caldwell and such only tell you what's going on where you are but in the real world, unless you're hunting somewhere shaped like a table top your reading will be affected by land forms, vegetation, sampling elevation, etc...

Once you've got the wind velocity, then you need to find the wind angle relative to the shot, find the angle cosine for that and multiply that by your indicated wind adjustment. I find it a lot easier to bracket the wind but that also requires me to keep my shot distances pretty short by my standards and I don't like to take shots at game in winds over 15mph. I get nervous when I do.

A wind call example that might give perspective: My last shot on game that had any wind worth mentioning was a 150gn GameKing from a .308win on a 220+ yard shot in a heavy wind. It was taken over very short scrub brush at a springbok (an African antelope about the size of a large dog or very small blacktail deer). I couldn't get a good read on vegetation sway but it was howlin' so I guessed that it was >20mph. The wind was so severe that had the buck been any further away and I wouldn't have taken the shot. He was head down with his nose at the same elevation as his shoulder so I held the crosshair on his nose and hit the loud switch. The bullet hit the heart square in the middle. Total wind drift was something very close to 12 inches, which verified my wind call as much as my wind DOPE. That's experience + skills and I was still a little iffy on taking the shot in those conditions but after 23 hours on airplanes to get there I wasn't keen on passing up much.

I do offer products and associated services for creating nearly indestructible DOPE cards that are meant for field use cases where one shot is all you get that takes care of most of the figuring for you and they are easy to use when you can't think straight. If you'd like to discuss those things specifically, PM me.

Great, thank you so much for this detailed explanation! I understand it a bit more now! I may shoot you at PM in the near future. Thanks again for your help.
 
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