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7MM Rem Mag - hardly a sniper rifle!
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Dick Tinsley
Well-Known Member
Plus one!!!! There is a lot of good info here!!!
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken they're still using some of them in AR platform DMR's for special purpose uses. 6.5 Grendel is a cool little caliber. Alot of people overlook it for the 6.5 Creed and .260 Rem. The 6.5 Grendel will stay supersonic a long ways after the .308 Win goes subsonic.
I've thought about building a bolt 6.5 Grendel, but the only drawback is that it has such an unusual bolt face (same as 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC), which is not commonly found in bolt guns.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
They might be...I know 869 used to be the go-to for the .50 BMG rifles, and it's a fair bit slower burning than H1000 is, but I don't know for a fact what all they use for what now. I think I remember hearing that from someone, but I can't recall 100%, that's been several years ago. I could be dead wrong about which powder it was...Wouldn't be the first time, I was wrong.
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
You & me both brother
. I haven't used 869 but my intuition thinks you couldn't get enough of that in the winny case to achieve the velocity the Mod 1 is getting right now.t
The Grendel is just a PPC bolt face. If a person had a Rem 700 you could just get a new bolt from PT&G or drill out and bush a.473" bolt face down to PPC then install a Sako or M16 extractor. In a Savage, you just buy a PPC bolt head from PT&G and slap it on. Done deal.
The 6.8 SPC actually has a totally different rim diameter than the Grendel/PPC/7.62X39. The rim of the 6.8 spc is about 20 thousandths smaller than the Grendel so chamber extraction for both cases could not work in the same bolt face. I'm a fan of the 6.8 spc as well. I have it in an AR-15 with a heavy 20" barrel and it is a HAMMER compared to my 5.56 NATO AR-15s.
You can actually make 6.5 Grendel brass from 7.62x39 cases pretty easily. A little heads up to anyone looking to get some cheap Grendel brass
I built a bolt rifle chambered in the 6mm version of the 6.5 Grendel with a 40 degree shoulder blown forward. Known as the 6mm AR Turbo 40. You've probably heard of that round here and there. Originally designed for competition AR shooting, but I decided to build it in a bench rifle format and try it in 1K Benchrest competition some time. I expect it will do OK, but who knows. Just have to see.
My bolt was made by PT&G and has the mini 16 extractor. Barrel twist and chamber free bore is set up for the 105gr Berger VLDs. Pretty cool little round. Probably not very ideal for a rifle that feeds from a magazine though...
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
PPC, not SPC...My bad...It's been nearing a decade since I've really done any specific research on the Grendel. I new it was one of those PC's.The Grendel is just a PPC bolt face. If a person had a Rem 700 you could just get a new bolt from PT&G or drill out and bush a.473" bolt face down to PPC then install a Sako or M16 extractor. In a Savage, you just buy a PPC bolt head from PT&G and slap it on. Done deal.
The 6.8 SPC actually has a totally different rim diameter than the Grendel/PPC/7.62X39. The rim of the 6.8 spc is about 20 thousandths smaller than the Grendel so chamber extraction for both cases could not work in the same bolt face. I'm a fan of the 6.8 spc as well. I have it in an AR-15 with a heavy 20" barrel and it is a HAMMER compared to my 5.56 NATO AR-15s.
You can actually make 6.5 Grendel brass from 7.62x39 cases pretty easily. A little heads up to anyone looking to get some cheap Grendel brass
I built a bolt rifle chambered in the 6mm version of the 6.5 Grendel with a 40 degree shoulder blown forward. Known as the 6mm AR Turbo 40. You've probably heard of that round here and there. Originally designed for competition AR shooting, but I decided to build it in a bench rifle format and try it in 1K Benchrest competition some time. I expect it will do OK, but who knows. Just have to see.
My bolt was made by PT&G and has the mini 16 extractor. Barrel twist and chamber free bore is set up for the 105gr Berger VLDs. Pretty cool little round. Probably not very ideal for a rifle that feeds from a magazine though...
I've seen and read-up a little bit on the 6mm AR Turbo 40, and it does seem to be a cool little round. There are folks shooting 6mm BR's at 1K, I wouldn't see why the Turbo couldn't handle it, or maybe be even better, since it has more powder in it and more velocity.
... especially if responses stay relevant and on course.lightbulb
Dick Tinsley
Well-Known Member
Absolutely!!! You read my mind!!! lightbulb
RustyRick
Well-Known Member
"Again! The purpose of this thread is asking the question,( Why the 7mm mag didn't make the sniper list?) "
In spite of all the squawking in this thread the real answer is simply, it depends on who's in bed with who. These decisions are always political, and happen around steak and wine..... and maybe more
At least that's how things happen here in Canada, and I doubt the USA is any different. ROFL Interesting thread anyhow.
We know that it really doesn't matter the caliber used for snipers. It's whether you know the ballistics of your caliber, and know how to Hail Mary the projectile or not.
The question that comes to mind is, do snipers go through the effort to find the right load for their rifle like us hand loaders do, or do they all use mass produced ammo out of pallets of production?
In spite of all the squawking in this thread the real answer is simply, it depends on who's in bed with who. These decisions are always political, and happen around steak and wine..... and maybe more
At least that's how things happen here in Canada, and I doubt the USA is any different. ROFL Interesting thread anyhow.
We know that it really doesn't matter the caliber used for snipers. It's whether you know the ballistics of your caliber, and know how to Hail Mary the projectile or not.
The question that comes to mind is, do snipers go through the effort to find the right load for their rifle like us hand loaders do, or do they all use mass produced ammo out of pallets of production?
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
In spite of all the squawking in this thread the real answer is simply, it depends on who's in bed with who. These decisions are always political, and happen around steak and wine..... and maybe more
At least that's how things happen here in Canada, and I doubt the USA is any different. ROFL Interesting thread anyhow.
Likely so, but in this particular process, given the parameters of the variety of, units, personnel, mission parameters, weapons systems, targets, and logistics involved, is there a clearly better choice than the .300 Winchester Magnum?
Basically in choosing a cartridge for snipers (not LRH or match shooters), that picks up the where the .308 Winchester leaves off (800 meters) (not my number) maximum effective range, to the 1500 yards (wikipedia) maximum effective range of the .300 Winchester Magnum.
The .338 Lapua gains some yardage on paper with an effective range of 1750 yards (wikipedia again), but truly to add yardage (individual achievements aside) or effect against hard targets the .50 Browning (2000 yard maximum effective range, wikipedia again) is a better choice between 1500 yards and out.
Penetration of body armor seems to be a factor in those maximum range numbers, but I would yield to any one with first hand knowledge.
My 2 cents is they got this one right in the broad context of military, and LE applications. Individual LRH or target applications being a separate subject.
Shane Lindsey
Well-Known Member
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"The question that comes to mind is, do snipers go through the effort to find the right load for their rifle like us hand loaders do, or do they all use mass produced ammo out of pallets of production?"
The guns are built to shoot the ammo on hand. Test fired and if they hold a MOA, they are about good.
Heard the discussions about getting new rigs for many years now. I would say we are closer to getting one now than before, but the only ones that really get what they want are the units so small they don't have to go through the same procurement processes. I think that with the budget and our lack of wartime funds, this may get canned. I will remain optimistic though.
.308 is hard to get rid of based on money alone. It was mentioned before, but barrel life is a huge consideration. A student puts roughly 50 rounds through a gun a day for about 3 weeks (I am not exactly sure anymore). On a bigger 30, that could be half the life of the barrel on school alone. With a bigger 30, right about the time you really start to learn your gun, its time for a new barrel. 308 doesn't have that problem.
I personally am a fan of the 308, but it was what introduced me to the long range thing. I also would love to see us go to the 300 WM with the big pills.
Semper
The guns are built to shoot the ammo on hand. Test fired and if they hold a MOA, they are about good.
Heard the discussions about getting new rigs for many years now. I would say we are closer to getting one now than before, but the only ones that really get what they want are the units so small they don't have to go through the same procurement processes. I think that with the budget and our lack of wartime funds, this may get canned. I will remain optimistic though.
.308 is hard to get rid of based on money alone. It was mentioned before, but barrel life is a huge consideration. A student puts roughly 50 rounds through a gun a day for about 3 weeks (I am not exactly sure anymore). On a bigger 30, that could be half the life of the barrel on school alone. With a bigger 30, right about the time you really start to learn your gun, its time for a new barrel. 308 doesn't have that problem.
I personally am a fan of the 308, but it was what introduced me to the long range thing. I also would love to see us go to the 300 WM with the big pills.
Semper
"Again! The purpose of this thread is asking the question,( Why the 7mm mag didn't make the sniper list?) "
Perhaps with a similar process as to why the 45ACP or 40 SW didn't make the 9mm Beretta list. The 9mm was the best choice for this bid, right?
Any which way, a skilled team is capable of utilizing "any" weapon platform effectively regardless of the caliber. Some teams may have their preference, some perhaps not, but all great teams make "things happen" when needed be it sniper, hunting or just for shooting fun.
RMulhern
Well-Known Member
I'm NOT saying the 7MM wouldn't make a decent LR cartridge; what I am saying is that our 'Uncle' STAYED with what he knew would work and had already been proven which was the ole .30 caliber bullet. The 7MM Mag didn't come along until....IIRC 1962 and the .300 H&H plus the 30/06 were considered pretty decent cartridges out to 1000 yards and beyond! And there weren't any of these 'fancy' new bullets around many years ago; basically the Sierra 180, 190, and the 200 gr. HPBT were winning the matches so Uncle Sam already had a proven report in his hands for that day and era!
