7MM Rem Mag - hardly a sniper rifle!

[LeddSlinger]

I'm comparing bullet weight to case capacity...NOT bullet weight to bullet weight...That would be stupid.

Re-read my post. Your entire post was a complete waste of time and effort.

The discussion of this entire thread here is THE 7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM vs. 300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for long range military sniper applications.

Comparing bullet weight to case capacity is a whole different subject that can encompass a multitude of calibers. Then we get into efficiency and all kinds of other ballistic data. This thread is caliber specific in it's comparison

Please read the thread and pay attention to the discussion at hand. You are trying to convince less educated people that the 7mm rem Mag will offer superior long range performance over the 300 Win mag and that just is not possible.
Trying to change the discussion to bullet weight vs capacity is just a means of "back-pedaling" to avoid admitting you are wrong. I am by no means an expert and I'm always striving to further my knowledge that has anything to do with firearms, but I do know ballistics, and I know that a 7mm Mag is not capable of 300 win mag performance at any range when using the best bullets available to both calibers.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The discussion of this entire thread here is THE 7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM vs. 300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for long range military sniper applications.

Comparing bullet weight to case capacity is a whole different subject that can encompass a multitude of calibers. Then we get into efficiency and all kinds of other ballistic data. This thread is caliber specific in it's comparison

Please read the thread and pay attention to the discussion at hand.

I am keeping it to the discussion at hand... Sounds like you're out of sound reasoning.

Oh, and the number one reason the military stuck with the .300 WinMag, was because of the already massive surplus of .308 caliber projectiles and US869 powder they stock. Also, to convert the M24 to .300 Win, they only had to 2 simple things, open the chambers, and open the bolt faces. The mil contracts already have barrel & action blueprints and specs approved...And a complete redesign and resubmission, restocking components, and dealing with all the red tape, would cost billions of dollars and LOTS of time.

It was a simple rechamber & open the bolt face job with new brass and primers... No new rifle specs. They could essentially keep everything the same.

Oh, and I never said it was superior, but apparantly you thought I did, and that's what got you supporters all butthurt. Nobody's ripping on your caliber, just setting the record straight when several others claimed it was "so much better" than the 7mm RemMag, when in reality, they are so close, it pretty much comes down to if you want a 7mm bullet or a .30 cal bullet.

But if you're good at ballistics as you say, and have as much first-hand knowledge with each caliber, as you try to portray, you should know that, right?

Instead of making up crap, like trying to ball-face lie and say that I said it was better.... Which is NOT true. I said they were so close it didn't matter which one you pick.

I DID, however, say the 7mm RemMag was MY favorite caliber...But never said it was better.

 

[LeddSlinger]

I am keeping it to the discussion at hand... Sounds like you're out of sound reasoning.

Oh, and the number one reason the military stuck with the .300 WinMag, was because of the already massive surplus of .308 caliber projectiles and US869 powder they stock. Also, to convert the M24 to .300 Win, they only had to 2 simple things, open the chambers, and open the bolt faces. The mil contracts already have barrel & action blueprints and specs approved...And a complete redesign and resubmission, restocking components, and dealing with all the red tape, would cost billions of dollars and LOTS of time.

It was a simple rechamber & open the bolt face job with new brass and primers... No new rifle specs. They could essentially keep everything the same.

Well I can't comment on the militray's exact reasoning for their decision becasue I was not part of that planning...
But don't forget that they surely did it to have better ballistics than both the 308 Win and the 7mm rem Mag too!!!

I have had both the 7mm Mag and the 300 win mag. I now own neither. The 300 WM is not "my caliber". I'm simply stating the facts that you are trying to mutilate. They both pale in comparison to the big 33's. I even prefer the 6.5mm's over the 7mm RM or 300 WM because trajectory with the 140gr VLD is pretty close out to 1K, but recoil is about half.

 

[WildRose]

Now that I got your attention!

I didn't want to hijack http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/7mm-remington-mag-build-help-135289/index2.html


I've always been curious as to why the 7MM Rem Mag hardly made it in the List of sniper rifles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -despite all its accolades. Hopefully, it'll change but perhaps your friend (or others with similar real world/hands on experience) can shed some light. lightbulb



I understand the list is inconclusive and perhaps inaccurate but just use it as a quick reference for a comparative purpose only.

The caliber is certainly quite capable but most of the world's snipers be they police or military use factory built "sniper rifles" chambered in .223, .308, or .300wm because those are the factory offerings.

We saw a big change in military sniper rifles over the last 20 years with the big bores coming around due to design improvements and especially recoil management due to changes in design and the addition of very effective muzzle brakes.

Not a damned thing wrong with the 7mm Rem for most sniper applications, it's just not a caliber that ever took off with police and military units mainly because of the fact they'd have to buy ammo specifically for it that would not work in service rifles or machine guns that were already in the inventory.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well I can't comment on the militray's exact reasoning for their decision becasue I was not part of that planning...
But don't forget that they surely did it to have better ballistics than both the 308 Win and the 7mm rem Mag too!!!

I have had both the 7mm Mag and the 300 win mag. I now own neither. The 300 WM is not "my caliber". I'm simply stating the facts that you are trying to mutilate. They both pale in comparison to the big 33's. I even prefer the 6.5mm's over the 7mm RM or 300 WM because trajectory with the 140gr VLD is pretty close out to 1K, but recoil is about half.

I had a .338 WinMag and it sucked. Cold bore zero was dead-on.....Any shots after that you might as well put up a dart board and start taking bets.

But let's not get this thread anymore sidetracked than it already has been...

 

[LeddSlinger]

I had a .338 WinMag and it sucked. Cold bore zero was dead-on.....Any shots after that you might as well put up a dart board and start taking bets.

But let's not get this thread anymore sidetracked than it already has been...

I'll try not to sidetrack the thread too far, but also try not to form an opinion on 33 cal chamberings based on your ONE experience with a bad rifle.
The 338 win mag chambering didn't suck...Either your rifle or the ammo being shot through it sucked

But I don't really consider the 338 WM a "Big" 33 anyhow. That wasn't really what I was talking about. But I'll leave it at that.

 

[WildRose]

The discussion of this entire thread here is THE 7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM vs. 300 WINCHESTER MAGNUM for long range military sniper applications.

Comparing bullet weight to case capacity is a whole different subject that can encompass a multitude of calibers. Then we get into efficiency and all kinds of other ballistic data. This thread is caliber specific in it's comparison

Please read the thread and pay attention to the discussion at hand. You are trying to convince less educated people that the 7mm rem Mag will offer superior long range performance over the 300 Win mag and that just is not possible.
Trying to change the discussion to bullet weight vs capacity is just a means of "back-pedaling" to avoid admitting you are wrong. I am by no means an expert and I'm always striving to further my knowledge that has anything to do with firearms, but I do know ballistics, and I know that a 7mm Mag is not capable of 300 win mag performance at any range when using the best bullets available to both calibers.

Emphasis mine. No, read the OP again, this thread is why the 7mm Rem didn't become more popular as a police and military sniper round. It is not limited to 7mm Rem and 300wm.

 

[LeddSlinger]

Emphasis mine. No, read the OP again, this thread is why the 7mm Rem didn't become more popular as a police and military sniper round. It is not limited to 7mm Rem and 300wm.

It's all in the OP's original post...

Read the VERY first post from the OP where he quoted someone saying that they thought the 300 win mag could "outshoot" the 7mm rem mag until a "military sniper" showed him the difference.

Then he went on to wondering why the 7mm mag never made it into a sniper rifle...

But I suppose we don't have to limit this discussion to those two chamberings. Especially since that dispute has already been settled. LOL!

 

[WildRose]

It's all in the OP's original post...

Read the VERY first post from the OP where he quoted someone saying that they thought the 300 win mag could "outshoot" the 7mm rem mag until a "military sniper" showed him the difference.

Then he went on to wondering why the 7mm mag never made it into a sniper rifle...

I did read it noob and it in no way limits the conversation.

You claim you want to learn something so quit trying to dictate to those with a hell of a lot more experience in the subject than yourself and you just might.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Emphasis mine. No, read the OP again, this thread is why the 7mm Rem didn't become more popular as a police and military sniper round. It is not limited to 7mm Rem and 300wm.

Thank you!!!

 

[MudRunner2005]

I did read it noob and it in no way limits the conversation.

You claim you want to learn something so quit trying to dictate to those with a hell of a lot more experience in the subject than yourself and you just might.

 

[LeddSlinger]

I did read it noob and it in no way limits the conversation.

You claim you want to learn something so quit trying to dictate to those with a hell of a lot more experience in the subject than yourself and you just might.

Noob huh? You and this " Mudrunner" yapping and posting 4500+ times each does not mean you have more experience. It means you spend more time sitting on the computer while I'm probably out shooting

I am done debating this subject. The two chamberings really are so close that it doesn't matter. I suppose it all comes down to preference. A person in a sniping situation or an animal in a hunting situation is going to be just as dead either way with a well placed shot from an experienced marksman.

Good talking with you fellas.

PS: Just to be clear, i did learn a little here regarding the military plans for the future of sniper rifles. I was unaware of that, so thank you. Take care

 

[WildRose]

Noob huh? You and this " Mudrunner" yapping and posting 4500+ times each does not mean you have more experience. It means you spend more time sitting on the computer while I'm probably out shooting

I am done debating this subject. The two chamberings really are so close that it doesn't matter. I suppose it all comes down to preference. A person in a sniping situation or an animal in a hunting situation is going to be just as dead either way with a well placed shot from an experienced marksman.

Good talking with you fellas.

PS: Just to be clear, i did learn a little here regarding the military plans for the future of sniper rifles. Take care

I was a Ranger Sniper with JSOC when you were still crapping in your diapers boy. I was one of a handful advocating for an Army Sniper School as well and helped with the first three classes to graduate from it.

I know exactly why the 7mm Rem didn't become the go to sniper round for the US and other Services because I was one of those advocating for it's use in same as early as 1981 and it was explained to me in great detail by those that made the decisions why were were sticking with what we had.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Noob huh? You and this " Mudrunner" yapping and posting 4500+ times each does not mean you have more experience. It means you spend more time sitting on the computer while I'm probably out shooting

I am done debating this subject. The two chamberings really are so close that it doesn't matter. I suppose it all comes down to preference. A person in a sniping situation or an animal in a hunting situation is going to be just as dead either way with a well placed shot from an experienced marksman.

Good talking with you fellas.

PS: Just to be clear, i did learn a little here regarding the military plans for the future of sniper rifles. I was unaware of that, so thank you. Take care

You caught me... I don't even own a real gun. I like sniping with my airsoft M4...

I only come on this forum to be a keyboard jockey and pretend like I know what i'm talking about.