6mm Creedmoor first elk hunt

[Fenix Outdoors]

Who brought up and said velocities didn't matter in the conversation of ballistics? You, the K/E or ft/lbs of energy camp beating that drum did. Velocity is the key metric and common denominator when discussing the terminal ballistics of bullets - without it, nothing moves, obviously. What a stupid thing to state, as if you can have one without the other.

Ft/lbs of energy is a byproduct of a projectile impacting a object at high velocity, doesn't add to the wounding mechanism and is a meaningless number in the equation of terminal ballistics of bullets. It happens, it's there, but it doesn't create the wound channel or destroy tissue inside the animal.

A bullet with a hollow point and a bullet with a ballistic tip upset at different impact velocities, so velocity is a useful number. Barring a manufacturer defect, a 6mm Sierra TMK will reliability upset creating a large wound channel down as low as 1,300 fps. A 6mm Hornady ELDM will reliability upset and do the same down to 1,700 fps. A 6mm Berger will upset 50% of the time and do the same down to 2,000 fps, the other 50% of the time they don't upset at all, just pencil through. Monos need more velocity. So velocity matters, ft/lbs of energy doesn't - velocity is the key metric and common denominator of the terminal ballistics of bullets, and to keep bringing it up like someone here said it doesn't is stupid.

 

[stazmania]

Who brought up and said velocities didn't matter in the conversation of ballistics? You, the K/E or ft/lbs of energy camp beating that drum did. Velocity is the key metric and common denominator when discussing the terminal ballistics of bullets - without it, nothing moves, obviously. What a stupid thing to state, as if you can have one without the other.

Ft/lbs of energy is a byproduct of a projectile impacting a object at high velocity, doesn't add to the wounding mechanism and is a meaningless number in the equation of terminal ballistics of bullets. It happens, it's there, but it doesn't create the wound channel or destroy tissue inside the animal.

A bullet with a hollow point and a bullet with a ballistic tip upset at different impact velocities, so velocity is a useful number. Barring a manufacturer deduct, a 6mm Sierra TMK will reliability upset creating a large wound channel down as low as 1,300 fps. A 6mm Hornady ELDM will reliability upset and do the same down to 1,700 fps. A 6mm Berger will upset 50% of the time and do the same down to 2,000 fps, the other 50% of the time they don't upset at all, just pencil through. Monos need more velocity. So velocity matters, ft/lbs of energy doesn't - velocity is the key metric and common denominator of the terminal ballistics of bullets, and to keep bringing it up like someone here said it doesn't is stupid.

You have stated very well the speed that these particular bullets upset and release some or all of the amount of KE available/created from that chosen bullet design, weight and velocity combo. That must be the bullet weight, design and velocity that you recommend to release the KE and get a satisfactory result.

 

[Ckleeves]

now we know that a 108 at 50 fps does not make enough KE to due much damage. So KE matters? Is it the best measure to determine what the end result will be? No. But neither is velocity. If you don't know the bullet weight, diameter and bullet/projectile structure, as well as the density of a given target, velocity alone does not tell us much. So if your velocity and bullet weight combine to give you your KE, all that is left to do is pick a projectile that will deliver that unimportant KE into the target do get the desired effect. I understand that you do not need to know the KE # to get the results you seek. But when you find "in your opinion" the perfect result, you have found the balance of KE transfer you seek. It does not matter what you call it that is the result, Just my opinion.

How would you not know the bullet weight or diameter? Those two are literally printed on the box. Minimum expansion velocity is available from any reputable bullet manufacture (or you can search up gel results) and the chrono gives you the other piece of the puzzle.

Everything revolves around velocity with a given projectile. And those numbers are going to be different depending on projectile. We don't need to do any math on "balance of KE transfer".

 

[stazmania]

How would you not know the bullet weight or diameter? Those two are literally printed on the box. Minimum expansion velocity is available from any reputable bullet manufacture (or you can search up gel results) and the chrono gives you the other piece of the puzzle.

Everything revolves around velocity with a given projectile. And those numbers are going to be different depending on projectile. We don't need to do any math on "balance of KE transfer".

no one said you need to know the KE number, just that the damage done is a direct result of the KE, and yes those results are going to differ depending on projectile and velocity. What we do as hunters is try and balance bullet weight and design with velocity at a given target/animal distance to deliver the KE in a fashion to dispatch the animal.

 

[WA Coyote]

There sure are a lot of Physicists on this forum…..

 

[stazmania]

There sure are a lot of Physicists on this forum…..

Not really just common sense. Shoot steel silhouette chickens with a 223 at 200 meters and it will knock it flat shoot the steel ram at 500 meters and they will not fall over " not enough KE" KE represents the energy generated at the target to do work "knock over steel or destroy/disrupt tissue. In tissue projectile design will determine how reliably the energy is used. While the steel ram is safe from the 223, a real life ram will be dead as long a you choose the correct projectile with the same little 223 to transfer the available KE.














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[VO2MaxFF]

You're wasting your time it's like talking to a rock . Just throw away your rifles and buy a 22 Arc it's the only gun you will need here on out. Saying that very sarcastically.

Yeah, I know. I'm not saying one can't kill a critter with a smaller/less "powerful " cartridge/bullet combination. But, I guess I just think differently on this subject.

 

[WA Coyote]

Not really just common sense. Shoot steel silhouette chickens with a 223 at 200 meters and it will knock it flat shoot the steel ram at 500 meters and they will not fall over " not enough KE" KE represents the energy generated at the target to do work "knock over steel or destroy/disrupt tissue. In tissue projectile design will determine how reliably the energy is used. While the steel ram is safe from the 223, a real life ram will be dead as long a you choose the correct projectile with the same little 223 to transfer the available KE.

Clearly, you are not one of the physicists.