6.5 Creedmoor Jump

[Kmccord]

I have a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5 Creed, I have been trying to locate a load that shoots .50 MOA or better, I started out using H4350 and 140 Berger EOL, I did have this shooting .945 back before deer season. Now, I have been trying to dial this in even better, I started off at Mag length that will reliably load, that came to CBTO of 2.110. That would shoot .945 MOA, now I started lowering the seating depth by 3 thousandths, I went down to 2.098 and noticed my groups never really moved much, they were worse really, went to 1.35 to 1.65 MOA... So, figured WTH, move it back to 2.110 and start working on powder charge, the original charge that shot .945 was at 40.5 of H4350, so started off at that weight and went to 42.5 in half grain increments, the ES and SD were all good, average high of 12 on ES and average low of 5 on SD on each 3 shot loads. However, my groups started off with 1.865 with the 40.5gr load, 2.415 with 41.0, 2.795 with 41.5, 2.459 with 42.0 and 3.342 with 42.5.. At this point I am wondering *** to do now, I do not have much hair left and typing those groups down on this post has my left eye twitching and a strange laugh coming out of my mouth.. So, back to the drawing board, stripped the bolt and did the Alex Wheeler method for finding my Lands and come up with 2.225 CBTO to touch, with Mag length at 2.110, I am jumping .115, now what should I do, check as a single shot and start off at .020 off the lands and work my way back? I checked my torq on my action screws they are set at 55 in pounds, the scope is tight and set at 20 in pounds on rings and 20 in pounds on the weaver rail. I am really frustrated at this point, I have some 130 Berger H VLD I can try, also have RL16 to use as well, but everyone always mention H4350 is the Cat's meow in the Creed, I am wondering if mine doesn't like it, still don't know how it went from .945 in October to now 1.86.. Any suggestions would be appreciated..

 

[Mikecr]

2.225 - 0.020 OTL is 2.205"
That's longer than your magazine limited CBTO of 2.110", so if your going to use the magazine then you might as well forget 20thou OTL.

You should back off powder to around 38gr and run the Berger recommended seating depth testing from 2.110.
This is far larger coarse increments to get you into the right zip code at least.
3sht grouping at each increment should be bad, but EASY for seeing best of coarse CBTO.
Then work with powder again.
Then with best coarse seating, and best powder load, fine tweak seating for tightest grouping.

If your results are no good, consider your primer or it's striking as a potential issue.
Back off on powder again, swap primer brands for best 3sht grouping, work powder back to best load.
This while at previous determined best seating (you're forever past that).
One of the primers may bring things together, and you could also do this while previously backed off for seating testing.
It removes any primer question.

These actions assume you do not have some issue impeding results. Something broken or bad..
An honest 1/2moa is hard to expect until knowing you really have EVERYTHING right.

 

[Stammster]

Why are you measuring group sizes to the 1/1000 if an inch?

 

[GrayCreed]

Pick a different bullet

 

[GrayCreed]

Speer Gold Dots don't seem to care where the lands are and the 140 comes in stock on Midway every couple months. The red/black target I shot at 100 yard way back when I had no idea what I was doing. 120g gold dot out of a 65creed JUMPING out the CASE before it hit the lands (like .150"). 44.1g of RE16, WLR primer, S&B brass.

White target is the Hornady 140ELDM loaded at 2.825 OAL which is around 2.220" CBTO (.009" off the lands for me). 42.3g of RE16 and WLRM primer.

 

[GrayCreed]

Also if you haven't switched yet don't use the plastic magazine cuz the metal AI mags you can load to 2.880

 

[Kmccord]

Also if you haven't switched yet don't use the plastic magazine cuz the metal AI mags you can load to 2.880

Really, I would have thought they would be the same.

 

[Kmccord]

Why are you measuring group sizes to the 1/1000 if an inch?

Just reading what is on the calipers.

 

[7MMMagnum]

I have a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5 Creed, I have been trying to locate a load that shoots .50 MOA or better, I started out using H4350 and 140 Berger EOL, I did have this shooting .945 back before deer season. Now, I have been trying to dial this in even better, I started off at Mag length that will reliably load, that came to CBTO of 2.110. That would shoot .945 MOA, now I started lowering the seating depth by 3 thousandths, I went down to 2.098 and noticed my groups never really moved much, they were worse really, went to 1.35 to 1.65 MOA... So, figured WTH, move it back to 2.110 and start working on powder charge, the original charge that shot .945 was at 40.5 of H4350, so started off at that weight and went to 42.5 in half grain increments, the ES and SD were all good, average high of 12 on ES and average low of 5 on SD on each 3 shot loads. However, my groups started off with 1.865 with the 40.5gr load, 2.415 with 41.0, 2.795 with 41.5, 2.459 with 42.0 and 3.342 with 42.5.. At this point I am wondering *** to do now, I do not have much hair left and typing those groups down on this post has my left eye twitching and a strange laugh coming out of my mouth.. So, back to the drawing board, stripped the bolt and did the Alex Wheeler method for finding my Lands and come up with 2.225 CBTO to touch, with Mag length at 2.110, I am jumping .115, now what should I do, check as a single shot and start off at .020 off the lands and work my way back? I checked my torq on my action screws they are set at 55 in pounds, the scope is tight and set at 20 in pounds on rings and 20 in pounds on the weaver rail. I am really frustrated at this point, I have some 130 Berger H VLD I can try, also have RL16 to use as well, but everyone always mention H4350 is the Cat's meow in the Creed, I am wondering if mine doesn't like it, still don't know how it went from .945 in October to now 1.86.. Any suggestions would be appreciated..

Just went through this process with a Christian Arms Mesa in 6.5 Creedmoor. Would not group and tried everything I knew to do with a load. Finally disassembled the rifle and the recoil lug recess on the stock was not cut deep enough which caused a pivot point and when the builder spot bedded the action, they put the action in a bind when they torqued the action screws. I removed their spot bed and deepened the recess and bedded the entire action myself. The magazine length on the rifle is 2.880. I ended up with two excellent loads.

39.4 grains of H4350
Hornady brass
Fed 210 primers
140 gr Berger Hybrid Target
2.870 C.O.A.L.
2730 fps

39.4 grains of H4350
Hornady Brass
Fed 210 primers
140 Hornady ELD M
2.820 C.O.A.L.
2740 fps

Both shoot better than .5 MOA
Just keep after it, you can figure it out.
Just a side note, I started seeing pressure signs (cratered primers and ejection marks) with anything over 41 grains of H4350. I see lots of folks shooting 42 grains plus. Be careful when working up.

 

[Kmccord]

I took my rifle apart, it is pillar bedded, I did not notice anything out of the ordinary, all seem to fit in as designed. I have thought about having it skimmed bedded to see if that changes anything. Before doing that, I am going to try going through the Berger jump (.10, .40, .90, .120) using max mag length instead of the from the Lands. If I do not see any difference in grouping, then I will need to look harder at how it fits in the stock. I have never had it this hard to get one to shoot. We purchased the same B14 HMR in 7mm Rem Mag for our Grandson last spring and worked up loads in his rifle. It was very easy to get it to shoot .50 MOA, the mag also was the same length as the chamber, I could get to .020 off from the Lands and still fit with plenty of room in the Magazine. This Creedmoor freebore is 2.225 base to Ogive with 140 grain EOL, the reliable Mag length I can use is 2.110 base to Ogive, so already jumping .115. It is just taking more than I expected to get it to shoot reliably less than 1 MOA.

 

[7MMMagnum]

I took my rifle apart, it is pillar bedded, I did not notice anything out of the ordinary, all seem to fit in as designed. I have thought about having it skimmed bedded to see if that changes anything. Before doing that, I am going to try going through the Berger jump (.10, .40, .90, .120) using max mag length instead of the from the Lands. If I do not see any difference in grouping, then I will need to look harder at how it fits in the stock. I have never had it this hard to get one to shoot. We purchased the same B14 HMR in 7mm Rem Mag for our Grandson last spring and worked up loads in his rifle. It was very easy to get it to shoot .50 MOA, the mag also was the same length as the chamber, I could get to .020 off from the Lands and still fit with plenty of room in the Magazine. This Creedmoor freebore is 2.225 base to Ogive with 140 grain EOL, the reliable Mag length I can use is 2.110 base to Ogive, so already jumping .115. It is just taking more than I expected to get it to shoot reliably less than 1 MOA.

I get you. I can also add that I shoot a lot of Berger bullets and they are a challenge to get to shoot in most rifles especially the VLD's. The Hornady 140 grain ELD-M was easy to tune to this rifle and better ballistic coefficient. It took awhile with the Berger's. That is why they designed the Hybrid and the Classic Hunter bullets. We are not the only folks in the world that have a hard time to get them tuned when using magazine length as a deterrent to cartridge length.

 

[7MMMagnum]

I have a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5 Creed, I have been trying to locate a load that shoots .50 MOA or better, I started out using H4350 and 140 Berger EOL, I did have this shooting .945 back before deer season. Now, I have been trying to dial this in even better, I started off at Mag length that will reliably load, that came to CBTO of 2.110. That would shoot .945 MOA, now I started lowering the seating depth by 3 thousandths, I went down to 2.098 and noticed my groups never really moved much, they were worse really, went to 1.35 to 1.65 MOA... So, figured WTH, move it back to 2.110 and start working on powder charge, the original charge that shot .945 was at 40.5 of H4350, so started off at that weight and went to 42.5 in half grain increments, the ES and SD were all good, average high of 12 on ES and average low of 5 on SD on each 3 shot loads. However, my groups started off with 1.865 with the 40.5gr load, 2.415 with 41.0, 2.795 with 41.5, 2.459 with 42.0 and 3.342 with 42.5.. At this point I am wondering *** to do now, I do not have much hair left and typing those groups down on this post has my left eye twitching and a strange laugh coming out of my mouth.. So, back to the drawing board, stripped the bolt and did the Alex Wheeler method for finding my Lands and come up with 2.225 CBTO to touch, with Mag length at 2.110, I am jumping .115, now what should I do, check as a single shot and start off at .020 off the lands and work my way back? I checked my torq on my action screws they are set at 55 in pounds, the scope is tight and set at 20 in pounds on rings and 20 in pounds on the weaver rail. I am really frustrated at this point, I have some 130 Berger H VLD I can try, also have RL16 to use as well, but everyone always mention H4350 is the Cat's meow in the Creed, I am wondering if mine doesn't like it, still don't know how it went from .945 in October to now 1.86.. Any suggestions would be appreciated..

Another question? I see Berger makes what they call a 6.5 156 grain EOL. Where are you buying 140 gr EOL bullets. I have quite an assortment of 6.5 Berger bullets and even of the 156 EOL's, but have never seen or heard of a 140 gr EOL.

 

[Kmccord]

Midway, Midsouth, Natchez, everyone I have seen has them in 140gr. Elite Hunter.

6.5mm .264 Diameter 140 Grain Elite Hunter 100 Count

6.5mm .264 Diameter 140 Grain Elite Hunter 100 Count by BERGER Product Overview: Berger Elite Hunter Rifle Bullets utilize their industry-leading hybrid ogive, which blends tangent and secant designs to optimize efficiency, reduce wind-drift, and minimize sensitivity to seating depth. Elite...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

 

[Recon$$]

Pick a different bullet

I just went through this with a 30 cal. Ladder tests out the wazoo. Powder and seating and primers. I finally gave in on my projectile of choice made a switch. Shooting 1/2 moa first ladder test with a new bullet. Sometimes the rifle chooses the bullet.