Kyle
Member
What is this thing?300 grn bullets at 3050 fps according to crowmag.Man I want one.I have a .338 Win Mag but it ain't like that.
.338 YOGI
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Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
I have a 338/416 Rigby IMP that I have pushed the 300 gr bullet out of the 37" barrel at 3310 FPS. I get 2 loadings out of the brass at that velocity. When I slow it down to 3200 FPS I get 7 loadings from the brass. My rifle also weighs 65 lbs
Have a friend with a 40" barrel and the 338/416 Rigby IMP chambering and he gets 3350 FPS with the 300 gr without any pressure signs.
No, a 338 Win can't possibly get close to those velocities.
Steve Shelp can give you info on the 338 Yogi.
Darryl Cassel
Have a friend with a 40" barrel and the 338/416 Rigby IMP chambering and he gets 3350 FPS with the 300 gr without any pressure signs.
No, a 338 Win can't possibly get close to those velocities.
Steve Shelp can give you info on the 338 Yogi.
Darryl Cassel
Brent
Well-Known Member
Steve,
I was meaning to ask you a few questions along these lines and this is a good place to post it.
My dad want's to build a 338 Yogi. He wanted me to find out where to buy the reamer and dies for him.
Maybe you or the other guys shooting them could point us in the right direction saving us some time?
Were your dies made with the same reamer?
What do you all think the best way to go about getting the reamer and "matching" dies is.
Are they bushing neck dies with a body die or something else that you guys use?
Are you all using the same supplier for the reamers and dies?
I'm trying to keep it fairly straight forward for him. He did say he wants to buy the reamer not rent one, so he will have it later on.
He wants to use the Lapua case for longevity reasons.
He likes the fact that he can get the standard 338 Lapua reamer and dies QUICK so I don't have much time to convince him to go with the Yogi.
I'll see him tomarrow, if you guys can quickly help make this as simple as doing the standard 338 Lapua chamber I'm sure he'll go with the Yogi instead. He was already looking up dies in Sinclair for the standard chambering so I won't have much time before he starts ordering stuff, he's that way.
Thanks alot.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Brent ]
I was meaning to ask you a few questions along these lines and this is a good place to post it.
My dad want's to build a 338 Yogi. He wanted me to find out where to buy the reamer and dies for him.
Maybe you or the other guys shooting them could point us in the right direction saving us some time?
Were your dies made with the same reamer?
What do you all think the best way to go about getting the reamer and "matching" dies is.
Are they bushing neck dies with a body die or something else that you guys use?
Are you all using the same supplier for the reamers and dies?
I'm trying to keep it fairly straight forward for him. He did say he wants to buy the reamer not rent one, so he will have it later on.
He wants to use the Lapua case for longevity reasons.
He likes the fact that he can get the standard 338 Lapua reamer and dies QUICK so I don't have much time to convince him to go with the Yogi.
I'll see him tomarrow, if you guys can quickly help make this as simple as doing the standard 338 Lapua chamber I'm sure he'll go with the Yogi instead. He was already looking up dies in Sinclair for the standard chambering so I won't have much time before he starts ordering stuff, he's that way.
Thanks alot.
[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Brent ]
Kyle
Member
Nah I doubt it will Darryl.Not out of a 24" barrel.
Kyle
Member
Did say 65?What the???Man I must be way behind.Why do you have it weighing so much?Obviously not to smart(me)??
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Kyle
It's a bench mounted heavy rifle for extreme longrange hunting and has killed elk at 2100 yards.
Even if the 338 Win mag had a super long barrel of 40" the case is not big enough to hold enough powder needed to come near the velocities mentioned from the 338/416 Rigby Imp.
DC
[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
It's a bench mounted heavy rifle for extreme longrange hunting and has killed elk at 2100 yards.
Even if the 338 Win mag had a super long barrel of 40" the case is not big enough to hold enough powder needed to come near the velocities mentioned from the 338/416 Rigby Imp.
DC
[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
My computer was broke sory for the delay.
The 338 Yogi is an imp 338 lapua and my gun weighs is over 40 lbs I have killed a deer at 1225 yards this year with it off a portable bench rest. I havent lost a case yet with 7 shots per case with max loads
Crow Mag
The 338 Yogi is an imp 338 lapua and my gun weighs is over 40 lbs I have killed a deer at 1225 yards this year with it off a portable bench rest. I havent lost a case yet with 7 shots per case with max loads
Crow Mag
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Crowmag
How long is your barrel and what velocity are you running the 300 gr bullets?
3000 FPS?
DC
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
How long is your barrel and what velocity are you running the 300 gr bullets?
3000 FPS?
DC
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Steve Shelp
Well-Known Member
Kyle,
I've shot a 338 Yogi sinse '99. It's a good case and it's already been described to you in the above posts. It isn't a "maxed out" design for lack of a better term. You go could go further on the shoulder if you wanted. But the body taper is about max though. Any less taper IMO and you would end up with extraction problems with the large surface area of this case. I've never stood on my loads or used the really slow burning powder to see how fast I can push the 300gr bullet. My rifle has been for the most accuracy I could get, leaving the velocity to whatever I end up at. So my powder selection is a bit faster than one would normally use for a long range hunting rig. Mine weighs 74# also and obviously is setup strictly for bench work.
My barrel right now is 30" and I'm just cruising along at 2900fps using H1000 and R25 powders. The original barrel was 32" and I went over 3000fps with it but accuracy went away so I never went up from there.
I know of another rifle in this same case with a 45" barrel that got 3165fps avg for 10 shot strings accuractly, using the same 95gr/R25 I was using at that time.
I would be curious to know if that barrel was cutback if it would pick up any speed or if that shooter used a really slow powder if it would again pick up any speed. But I think 3200fps is doable in a Lapua improved case, in a long barrel, with the right powder.
Someday I'll load mine up with some slow surplus powder like Darryl uses in his 338/416 Imp and see what it will produce. But the Lapua case will never match the Rigby improved case 1 for 1 though. Simple physics comes into play there. When you have more boiler room, you add more powder.... more powder... more speed. Simple as that. But the advantage of vastly improved case life and still shooting in the 3000-3200fps range with that 300gr bullet makes it a very attractive chambering.
Brent,
see my comments below.
My dad want's to build a 338 Yogi. He wanted me to find out where to buy the reamer and dies for him. Maybe you or the other guys shooting them could point us in the right direction saving us some time?
The 338 Yogi is Dave Tooley's proprietary cartridge. He owns the rights to the prints. I believe Dave Manson is the one who actually made the reamers and has the prints, but don't quote me on that. But you would need to call Dave Tooley to get permission to have a reamer made from the reamer manufacturer. Never run into this question before, so I would call Dave Tooley @ 704-864-7525 and simply ask.
Were your dies made with the same reamer?
yes
What do you all think the best way to go about getting the reamer and "matching" dies is.
Dave Tooley uses Newlon die blanks that have a floating bushing setup in them and are setup to minimum full length size the entire case. Then you regulate the neck tension with different size bushing. The die is made to accept the std Wilson and/or Redding bushings that are available anywhere. His seating die is cut from a Wilson die blank and is the same straight-line seating setup of the original Wilson dies. Having it done this way is the best setup IMO. To give you an example of the minimal full-length sizer setup, I size less than .001 over the entire case.. shoulder bump excluded. That is adjustable for each chamber difference like any other die using the outside threads in the press.
Are they bushing neck dies with a body die or something else that you guys use?
see above comments. 2 dies. (1) FL sizer and 1 seating die.
He wants to use the Lapua case for longevity reasons.
That won't be a problem! I have numerous cases with over 20 firings on them and still going.
I'll see him tomorrow, if you guys can quickly help make this as simple as doing the standard 338 Lapua chamber I'm sure he'll go with the Yogi instead. He was already looking up dies in Sinclair for the standard chambering so I won't have much time before he starts ordering stuff, he's that way.
If time is a real factor and push comes to shove, John Ricks out in Washington State has a similar 338 Lapua Improve case also. But I don't know how he does his dies and if that case is proprietary also. Or checkout the reamer manufacturers web sites.
Good luck Brent. David also has a 300 Yogi(obviously the 338 Yogi necked down) which sounds almost like what your interested in. That's a tight neck design also with good specs for a match chamber. Have a friend in Ohio who using one in LG BR competition and has fired a screamer group with it already in his first year with it firing 240gr SMK bullets.
Talk to you later!
Steve
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
I've shot a 338 Yogi sinse '99. It's a good case and it's already been described to you in the above posts. It isn't a "maxed out" design for lack of a better term. You go could go further on the shoulder if you wanted. But the body taper is about max though. Any less taper IMO and you would end up with extraction problems with the large surface area of this case. I've never stood on my loads or used the really slow burning powder to see how fast I can push the 300gr bullet. My rifle has been for the most accuracy I could get, leaving the velocity to whatever I end up at. So my powder selection is a bit faster than one would normally use for a long range hunting rig. Mine weighs 74# also and obviously is setup strictly for bench work.
My barrel right now is 30" and I'm just cruising along at 2900fps using H1000 and R25 powders. The original barrel was 32" and I went over 3000fps with it but accuracy went away so I never went up from there.
I know of another rifle in this same case with a 45" barrel that got 3165fps avg for 10 shot strings accuractly, using the same 95gr/R25 I was using at that time.
I would be curious to know if that barrel was cutback if it would pick up any speed or if that shooter used a really slow powder if it would again pick up any speed. But I think 3200fps is doable in a Lapua improved case, in a long barrel, with the right powder.
Someday I'll load mine up with some slow surplus powder like Darryl uses in his 338/416 Imp and see what it will produce. But the Lapua case will never match the Rigby improved case 1 for 1 though. Simple physics comes into play there. When you have more boiler room, you add more powder.... more powder... more speed. Simple as that. But the advantage of vastly improved case life and still shooting in the 3000-3200fps range with that 300gr bullet makes it a very attractive chambering.
Brent,
see my comments below.
My dad want's to build a 338 Yogi. He wanted me to find out where to buy the reamer and dies for him. Maybe you or the other guys shooting them could point us in the right direction saving us some time?
The 338 Yogi is Dave Tooley's proprietary cartridge. He owns the rights to the prints. I believe Dave Manson is the one who actually made the reamers and has the prints, but don't quote me on that. But you would need to call Dave Tooley to get permission to have a reamer made from the reamer manufacturer. Never run into this question before, so I would call Dave Tooley @ 704-864-7525 and simply ask.
Were your dies made with the same reamer?
yes
What do you all think the best way to go about getting the reamer and "matching" dies is.
Dave Tooley uses Newlon die blanks that have a floating bushing setup in them and are setup to minimum full length size the entire case. Then you regulate the neck tension with different size bushing. The die is made to accept the std Wilson and/or Redding bushings that are available anywhere. His seating die is cut from a Wilson die blank and is the same straight-line seating setup of the original Wilson dies. Having it done this way is the best setup IMO. To give you an example of the minimal full-length sizer setup, I size less than .001 over the entire case.. shoulder bump excluded. That is adjustable for each chamber difference like any other die using the outside threads in the press.
Are they bushing neck dies with a body die or something else that you guys use?
see above comments. 2 dies. (1) FL sizer and 1 seating die.
He wants to use the Lapua case for longevity reasons.
That won't be a problem! I have numerous cases with over 20 firings on them and still going.
I'll see him tomorrow, if you guys can quickly help make this as simple as doing the standard 338 Lapua chamber I'm sure he'll go with the Yogi instead. He was already looking up dies in Sinclair for the standard chambering so I won't have much time before he starts ordering stuff, he's that way.
If time is a real factor and push comes to shove, John Ricks out in Washington State has a similar 338 Lapua Improve case also. But I don't know how he does his dies and if that case is proprietary also. Or checkout the reamer manufacturers web sites.
Good luck Brent. David also has a 300 Yogi(obviously the 338 Yogi necked down) which sounds almost like what your interested in. That's a tight neck design also with good specs for a match chamber. Have a friend in Ohio who using one in LG BR competition and has fired a screamer group with it already in his first year with it firing 240gr SMK bullets.
Talk to you later!
Steve
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
Brent
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve, I just emailed it to him.
It looks like one could go to a 35 degree shoulder but the neck seems short already for a 338? Body taper is pretty maxed out too.
I think Crowmag posted a pic of it that I saved. It shows a 30 degree shoulder and .265" long neck. Is the neck really that short or is it .365"? It looks about .265". I always thought the diameter of the bullet is what the neck length was recomended to be at minimum?
It looks like one could go to a 35 degree shoulder but the neck seems short already for a 338? Body taper is pretty maxed out too.
I think Crowmag posted a pic of it that I saved. It shows a 30 degree shoulder and .265" long neck. Is the neck really that short or is it .365"? It looks about .265". I always thought the diameter of the bullet is what the neck length was recomended to be at minimum?
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Crowmag
I slow mine down to 3200 FPS in PA to save brass.
On my hunting trips out west I really don't care about the brass that much since it is a once a year elk trip. I run it back up to 3300 for the trip out there.
The additional velocity does make quite a difference on the elk and large mule deer at extreme range.
A few pieces of brass don't mean much when your out there. Like I mentioned, I only get 2 loadings out of the brass at 3300 and 7 when I back it down to 3150 and 3200.
2100 yards so far on elk for me and a friend of mine has the same chambering as mine (338/416 IMP) and also a 40" barrel. His velocity is 3350 with the 300 gr and he killed an elk 4 years ago at 2890 yards with several witnesses.
Later
DC
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
I slow mine down to 3200 FPS in PA to save brass.
On my hunting trips out west I really don't care about the brass that much since it is a once a year elk trip. I run it back up to 3300 for the trip out there.
The additional velocity does make quite a difference on the elk and large mule deer at extreme range.
A few pieces of brass don't mean much when your out there. Like I mentioned, I only get 2 loadings out of the brass at 3300 and 7 when I back it down to 3150 and 3200.
2100 yards so far on elk for me and a friend of mine has the same chambering as mine (338/416 IMP) and also a 40" barrel. His velocity is 3350 with the 300 gr and he killed an elk 4 years ago at 2890 yards with several witnesses.
Later
DC
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Steve Shelp
Well-Known Member
Brent,
I would call Dave if you don't hear from him in the am. He checks his email just before he goes downstairs to the shop.... if he checks it tomorrow morning. He's not good with emails. Calling is the best bet if time is short.
Also here is a picture of various 338 Lapua cases. From left to right is the following:
Sectioned 338 Yogi case, 338 Yogi case (with crack near shoulder/body junction on the left side), and a std 338 Lapua case for comparison.
The center case with the crack, is an example of a case that I didn't lube during fire-forming that I talked about in the other thread about fire-forming. Thought I would throw that in for you to see. The std lapua case on the right is the first ever 338 Lapua case I ever saw. A man by the name of Tom Leighton gave that to me at the PA 1,000yd club in '90 I think. I use to have one of the older 320gr Sierra MK bullets seated into it that case also, but my boys were playing with it one day in my truck and it went down the defrosting vent by the windshield. So I still got it... somewhere in my truck
The neck of the Yogi is approx .265" long. The rule of thumb is the neck length is equals caliber size but the larger the bore the more out of proportion that gets. It's the surface area needed to hold the bullet is what you need. So on a larger diameter bullet the less neck length is needed. But then some have the theory that a longer neck is easier on the throat in regard to gas/flame temp and erosion. So everything is a give/take. All in what your looking for.
Someday If I ever make it to Alaska, I'll have to stop in and see all of your interesting toys!
Steve
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
I would call Dave if you don't hear from him in the am. He checks his email just before he goes downstairs to the shop.... if he checks it tomorrow morning. He's not good with emails. Calling is the best bet if time is short.
Also here is a picture of various 338 Lapua cases. From left to right is the following:
Sectioned 338 Yogi case, 338 Yogi case (with crack near shoulder/body junction on the left side), and a std 338 Lapua case for comparison.
The center case with the crack, is an example of a case that I didn't lube during fire-forming that I talked about in the other thread about fire-forming. Thought I would throw that in for you to see. The std lapua case on the right is the first ever 338 Lapua case I ever saw. A man by the name of Tom Leighton gave that to me at the PA 1,000yd club in '90 I think. I use to have one of the older 320gr Sierra MK bullets seated into it that case also, but my boys were playing with it one day in my truck and it went down the defrosting vent by the windshield. So I still got it... somewhere in my truck
The neck of the Yogi is approx .265" long. The rule of thumb is the neck length is equals caliber size but the larger the bore the more out of proportion that gets. It's the surface area needed to hold the bullet is what you need. So on a larger diameter bullet the less neck length is needed. But then some have the theory that a longer neck is easier on the throat in regard to gas/flame temp and erosion. So everything is a give/take. All in what your looking for.
Someday If I ever make it to Alaska, I'll have to stop in and see all of your interesting toys!
Steve
[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Steve Shelp ]
Brent
Well-Known Member
Steve,
You're welcome here anytime. Just knock first, I've got a 130 lb. bulldog here that would still love for someone not to.
Kiddin, he's a pussycat. Don't forget to bring all your toys over too so we can play.
I see you've edited your post up there, almost didn't catch that. John Ricks sounds familiar. Is he the John Ricks over at Accurate Reloading?
I sent you an email before I seen that you posted that Dave had a 300 Yogi reamer too.
I was refering to my father, about the email. Just ment I forwarded the info you'd given me to him. I'll call and talk to Dave tomarrow about it and the other things I asked you about in the email too. Thanks for his number.
Thanks for the clarifacation on the neck length, and the pic too. I had to take another look at it but you CAN see the crack about .040" down on the body.
The 300 Yogi with the tight neck is what I'm lookin for too.
You're welcome here anytime. Just knock first, I've got a 130 lb. bulldog here that would still love for someone not to.
I see you've edited your post up there, almost didn't catch that. John Ricks sounds familiar. Is he the John Ricks over at Accurate Reloading?
I sent you an email before I seen that you posted that Dave had a 300 Yogi reamer too.
I was refering to my father, about the email. Just ment I forwarded the info you'd given me to him. I'll call and talk to Dave tomarrow about it and the other things I asked you about in the email too. Thanks for his number.
Thanks for the clarifacation on the neck length, and the pic too. I had to take another look at it but you CAN see the crack about .040" down on the body.
The 300 Yogi with the tight neck is what I'm lookin for too.
