.308 SMK Report on Texas White Tail

[Jon A]

Pop, how many "hunting" bullets are available in .338 cal, 300 grains, with a BC around .8? I'd say if you're trying to kill an elk at 900 yds a bullet with a lower BC that will drift farther in the wind giving you less sure shot placement and won't retain as much energy is the bullet that's "substandard" by comparison.

"Little Matchking" that won't penetrate a shoulder? You're simply wrong about that when speaking of these big heavies. Your arguement holds a little more water in the lighter weights but nobody advocates shooting through shoulders with those, just like they don't with Ballistic Tips.

Just a few days ago I did yet another penetration test with the 240 SMK against the 180 TSX, 180 Scirocco, 200 AB and an 8mm 200 Partition.

You want to know which one easily penetrated the farthest? AND blew the biggest hole? Here's a hint--it was the only one that didn't have a nice, pretty mushroom upon recovery. A pretty recovered bullet doesn't kill. A big wound channel does.

It's pretty clear you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Actually load some up and shoot something.

 

[jwp475]

I have never used a SMK to hunt with but have wittnessed their use, htis past October I saw several Antelope taken out to as far as 550 yards calibers ranged from a 223 wssm with 90 SMK, to a 300wsm with 178 SMK all were one shot kills bang flop.As most of know from my post I am shooting the TXS 180 in my 300 win this bullet has proven to be as accurate or more so in my rifle as 180 AccuBonds or 190 SMK I am planning on trying some 190, 210 grain Wildcats soon in my 300 win and 280 wildcats in my 338 RUM and possiable 300 SMK's in my 338 RUM.From what I saw the SMK may accuraly perform better than the Siera game kings

 

[jb1000br]

Jon A said:


"A pretty recovered bullet doesn't kill. A big wound channel does."

Never saw that put into words...good point there.

JB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[lerch]

The only problem I can see with SMK's is if they hit only soft tissue at extended ranges when the bullet has slowed down, in turn long range chuckin or pdoging. Problem here is what doesnt do about the same thing. The only bullet I have seen do any decent expansion at long range was the 105 AMax out of a 243 win. Admitidly I Have not tried them all but I would imagine the vast majority of bullets wouldnt open up or mushroom much past 1300yds or so out of a standard varmint type caliber.

On big game, deer and such, I would think that most SMK's would do just fine as long as they still had a decent amount of velocity going for them. I can see some people having problems with them "zipping" right through a pdog or chuck at 1200yds or so, excpecially out of a smaller calibers.

take it easy
steve

 

[Rheinhardt]

I am new to the forums and figured this was as good a place as any to say hi. I have only been into the longrange varminting/paper punching scene for maybe 5 years now. Up here in New York we don't have a many big game shots much beyond 50-200 yards in most realistic hunting situations in the Northern Tier but since the Southern Tier is now allowed to use the rifle I have spend alot of time researching this forum and others trying to get some good information. Like anyone infected with the accuracy bug I spend alot of time trying to get some opinions about what works and what doesn't. This forum seems like a really good repository of very valuble experience. I guess I just wanted to put forth my own comments from my limited experience and maybe ask a question or two if I could without hijacking the thread.

My comments regarding the bullet chart POP posted: The matchking definately appears to break apart in the medium. Whether the medium used in this experiment is appropriate for simulation of game animal tissue can be debated but it still seems to me that the matchking construction is unlike any of the other test bullets: no other bullet exhibits the matchking behavior. However whats more interesting is the penetration. I have yet to see anyone mention it but despite the SMK appearing totally fragment it still yields an average penetration depth equal to other bullets propelled at that velocity. Strange for a bullet that looks like it is breaking apart on impact to come anywhere close to the depths indicated. I can only surmise that the fragmentation of the SMK only occurs AFTER the bullet has passed signifcantly in the medium and then breaks down once it has decelerated. If thats the case, and I am getting a solid 15-19 inches of penetration before that baby fragments what you should have is a bullet that pierces the hide then fragments once its in soft tissue. And from some of the photos I have seen posted on these forums, thats exactly what seems to happen when everything works out right. I would be very intrested to see the medium used for testing cross-sectioned so we can get a better 3 dimensional picture as to whats going on.

Another comment I wanted to make was comparing the 30 caliber SMK to larger caliber SMK. From what I have seen and read in the forums there are few who question the .338" diameter and up. Most of what I would consider the insanity pictures (you know the ones where the deer have a whole in their side big enough to toss a cat thru it) were all shot with a 338 or larger bullet. Seems like this topic really flares up when anyone using a 30 caliber or smaller. I was curious, does anyone have the internal matchking dimensions? I was just curious as to wall thickness, hollowpoint cavity, etc. If there is a real proportional difference between the various calibers.

Another point regarding this picture POP posted: Check out *reliable* expansion on most of these bullets. Looks like around 1200-1000 ft/lbs of energy most bullets cease to expand reliably, most stop expanding at all. Does this not negate the real *advantage* to using a hunting bullet versus a match bullet, especially considering in this forum we are talking about hunting at such long ranges? Seeing the Remington Core-Lokt stops expanding at 500 yards why would I opt to use it when I can get an SMK with what I would consider to be superior consitency and long range aerodynamic performance? In my very humble experience long range shooting its my belief that the hardest challenge is actually connecting with your target.

Just my 2 cents: Load a Sierra 175 SMK and a Sierra 180 RN. Keep both in your pocket. Point of impact should be the same or at least close enough so if your zero at 200 yards with the SMK your **** close enough with the RN it wont matter. If your taking a stroll thru the thick pines load a RN in the chamber. You see that big buck out at the edge of the hedgerow when you exit, swap cartridges. And don't hand me that crap you dont have enough time. If you have time to set up a 600 yard shot, you have time to swap the cartridge. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Fotis]

[ QUOTE ]
Pop,It's pretty clear you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Actually load some up and shoot something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell's Bell's..... if you say so it must be true!

 

[edge]

Some excellent points on the penetration!

IMO, the condition explains the fragmentation. These bullets were most likely tumbling in the test medium. The sides of the bullets are too distorted to have been flying straight through the medium.

If the fragmentation and penetration are consistent then it can cause a much more damaging wound than a mushrooming bullet since it will cut and destroy tissue at some distance from the shot line.

edge.

 

[Fotis]

 

[Rheinhardt]

Ah nice, bullet cross sections are always interesting. Does anyone have one of the Hornady SST Line? Those are what I have been havin' alot of luck with lately, maybe someone can save me the effort of putting one on the chop saw /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And poor POP. I don't think he is a moron, in fact he raises a really good point: with the current selection of hunting bullets availible today there are many really good ones that can get it done at a variety of ranges, why use the matchking? I think back in the day before we had all the fancy stuff many take for granted the only bullets that offered you the low drag, high ballistic coefficent with a high degree of consistency capable of really getting out there was the sierra matchking. So naturally any veteran longrange shooter has used them for years and years. I think its the same as being partial to an old truck. Sure the current line of vehicles may offer onboard GPS, power everything, heated seats, satelitte radio and have a more efficent motor but there is something about my old diesel that just makes me keep sinkin money into it and driving it. It gets the job done for me.

I shoot Hornady V-Max and SST from all my rifles because they offer me the same low drag design in a bullet that I can get for less then the SMK. Plus I like the fact that it is designed by the engineers from the ground up to be a hunting bullet. Being a mechanical engineer myself, and knowing what goes into a design/manufacturing process: in particular the shortcuts and estimations all engineers use when putting things together; its my personal preferance to use any product as it was designed and not push my luck. To date I haven't had a deer or woodchuck complain to me that they didn't like the way the Hornady bullets blasted them apart. So I am gonna keep using 'em cause they work. I have seen way too many pictures on here of people who have killed everything on the face of the planet with matchkings. As long as it works, who am I to cast judgement.

Whether or not Sierra's stance on their matchking is truly a political/legal thing, I couldn't tell you...but I strongly suspect its an engineering thing. If they say the design parameters for the matchking were solely for punching holes in paper, then I can say with a fair degree of confidence thats exactly what they are designed for. The annals of history are filled with people using a product for an application other then what it was originally intended for. That people have alot of luck on game is pretty coincidental. After reviewing these forums I can conclude that there are alot more success stories then failure stories. And for pretty much any given bullet I can always find lots of people who will testify from experince that XYZ bullet sucks, and ABC bullet is the ultimate. The SMK is really no different. The only conceptual difference is sierra doesn't recommend it. There is no engineer with any sort of ethical mind that will sign off on a bullet performance claim where the bullet will function in a capacity that was not in the original parameters of the design regardless how many documented hunting/military sniper success stories exist with the SMK.

 

[Eaglet]

Guys, those last two bullets, (ballistic tip and accubond), they look pretty much alike, is the bonding the only difference? I'm a 200 grainer accubond shooter on my 300 RUM, how would the 180 ballistic tip hold up? Thanks!

 

[Fotis]

Yes the bonding and taper of jacket(and thickness) is basically the only diff. The BT can be problematic if launched past 3000 fps.

 

[Eaglet]

Pop,
Thanks!

 

[Buffalobob]

Pop

Thanks. I needed a good laugh.

[ QUOTE ]
Hell's Bell's..... if you say so it must be true!



[/ QUOTE ]

Eaglet

Look very carefully at the Accubond and the BT. Thicker jacket and <font color="red"> "harder alloy lead core" </font> on the Accubond. More bone breaking ability with the thicker jacket and harder alloy core before the bullet goes to full mushroom. Unless of course your name is Ankeny and then they just fall apart at the mere sight of an elk. Which then brings me to my conclusion which is all bullets fails sometimes.


Ankeny has bad luck with accubonds

 

[BravoEMike]

Greetings...
I am shooting a .300 Win. Mag. out of an Accuracy International AWM!
I use 190 Gr. SMK...@2950 fps.
I have been invited to hunt Elk this fall in Colorado.
I believe in shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement!
Would you recomend a bullet change?
...or where to place the shot on the elk with the SMK?
Thanks...