.308 SMK Report on Texas White Tail

[Fotis]

Just switch to a Hornady, Nosler accubond heck even a ballistic tip and you'll be fine! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

And yes. Sierra does NOT reccomend them on game.

 

[Bart B]

4ked Horn, your comments:

"Think "lawyers" then remember that the military, the most humane and gentle killing force in the world, uses SMKs as antipersonell projectiles. These must be "nonexpanding" bullets according to about 6 different pacts and treaties. Well, If thats what uncle sam wants then that is what uncle sam gets. And let me tell ya, there are a whole lot of our snipers out there that are grateful for the accuracy and nonexpansiveness of the S Match K bullet."

...are almost correct. Here's why.

I agree that Sierra's HPMK match bullets are often used for combat purposes. I've some .300 Win. Mag. ammo made by Federal with Sierra 180-gr. HPMK's seated. There have been others in the 7.62mm NATO round.

The difference between them and what the rest of the world buys is their hollow point is swaged closed. Its meplat no longer exists and the bullets have a pretty sharp point. Some lots of these "closed nose" bullets haven't shot very accurate; probably because the swaging tool put too much pressure on 'em and bent them out of shape. According to all the international rules, such "closed nose" bullets do not violate any rules.

The only arsenal ammo the US miltary has ever had with unaltered Sierra HPMK bullets is the M852 7.62mm NATO Match on which its boxes are clearly marked "Not for combat use" because these unaltered bullets do violate international rules.

 

[Fotis]

I agree. Additionally let's not forget that the Laws of Armed Conflict apply to WAR ...not police actions or anti-terrorist campaigns. As a US Military combatant I am fully familiar with these laws.

 

[Dave King]

Bart B

Your data is out of date by at least 4 years or so, the old M118 SB (Special Ball) was a 173 FMJ. M118LR ammo is now the standard military combat sniper round and it IS a standard hollow point 175 Sierra Matchking. Check the revision to the Hague Convention type stuff for yourself.

Military 300 Win Mag is loaded with the 190 Sierra SMK.

 

[LWolken]

I don't think it is fair to say they suck. I'd say it is fair to say that they are marginal when shooting game in the shoulders as it says in your post. If you like to anchor animals by shooting them through the shoulders then yes you need a bonded bullet. The problem is not the bullet it is shot placement. Match bullets work well when placed BEHIND!the shoulder thats all.

Lance

 

[Jimm]

Hello savage fan man ,

I just started using the 190 smk in my 300 winnie this past hunting season. Using 73 grs of RE 22 I'm getting 3050 fps . Accuracy is excellent for an old man with lots of floaters in my shooting eye , .75 3shot groups at 300. To be fair I have to point out that the LSR custom I'm shooting has a lot of built in forgiveness . That is to say it shoots way better than I can in the right hands .

All that being said , the first deer i shot with combo was at approx 240yds. ( did'nt laser it but had done so in the area he showed up in previously ) I shot him in a very slight quarter facing me and left at the junction of the neck and shoulder with his head down feeding toward me . I shoot very free recoil so even my 14 lb rifle shoved me out and upon recovery he was feet almost straight up , i watched a coupla kicks then still. Sorry to say that I didn't do an autopsy because that angle include d some " intestinal impact " /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Here is a pic of his handsome self /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later in the season I had an opportunity at the last bit of light to shoot a deer at 337 yds . Didn't know what it was doe or buck wise( could'nt see if it had horns cause it was so late ) but it did'nt matter , I had tags for either. I made the shot and as it was across a valley to the other side some rugged going to get there even in daylightI opted to wait till the next day morning at daybreak ( was going to be very cold that night also ) toi go and find it .. Well , I should have went that night as it went about 20 yds and piled up . Once again I didn't open the body cavity as the angle was left side behind shoulder going to the off side ham at the rear . Upon skinning the deer we foung a bit of lead ( hadn't weighed it yet but would guess about 50 or 60 grs .) had passed all the way through the deer and was under the hide on the off side at the rear of the ham . Remember , he only went 20 or so yds.Here is his purty self

. Very different exp. than yours I realize , however just as real . I suspect that even longer ranges I will enjoy deeper penetration without so much separation of the bullet / jacket . Reckon I'll find out if the opportunities present themselves /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Sorry about your bad exp, things like that keep me up at night . They also cause me to be a better shot in the future as welll a s being cognizant of all the various parameters that will serve to allow me to more accurately reconstruct what actually happened at the shot.

Finally , you need to use what you think is best as your confindence is a very important part of the equation .

Thanks for telling us about your exp. It's hard to live with things like that I know !

Jim Brown

 

[Jimm]

Didn't work the first time [image]

[/image]

 

[abinok]

Nice looking deer Jim! I was wondering if you were having any success /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 17 was the last count I heard...

As far as military use of the SMK, and other HPBT bullets, both the SMK and the hornady HPBT were recently recertified from "hollow point" to open tip match "OTM" and are now "legal" for war purposes. I have a friend in the sandbox that says he really likes the 175SMK in his MK11.
Its also interesting to not that the 6.8SPC is using a 115gr OTM bullet in its projected military form.

 

[JDT]

Do SMK expand on the easy side since they are HPs or on the difficult sise? In other words, do they under-pentetrate as a result of opening up quickly or over-penetrate and punch tiny holes as a result of not expanding?

I;m simply curious as to which extreme they fall closest to.

 

[Jimm]

JDT ,

Sorry , I simply don't have enough experience to answer that. Perhaps those here that have been using them awhile will post there exp.

Jim

 

[Jon A]

[ QUOTE ]
If you like to anchor animals by shooting them through the shoulders then yes you need a bonded bullet. The problem is not the bullet it is shot placement. Match bullets work well when placed BEHIND!the shoulder thats all.

[/ QUOTE ]
That can certainly be true for the smaller rounds and lighter weights, but it isn't universally true. A 240 SMK will blast a big hole through the shoulders of any deer that ever lived.

 

[Charles A]

[ QUOTE ]
Do SMK expand on the easy side since they are HPs or on the difficult sise? In other words, do they under-pentetrate as a result of opening up quickly or over-penetrate and punch tiny holes as a result of not expanding?

I;m simply curious as to which extreme they fall closest to.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well it depends on what weight for cal you use and velocity. A 168gr MK out of a 300RUM at 80yds is going to fragment to pieces. On the other hand a 240gr MK out of the same gun at 800yds is going to penetrate quite a bit.


Sorry you had a bad expierence, but several hundred kills and going, not once has there been a "bullet failure".

 

[Fotis]

A pidture is worth a thousand words they say! Save as then zoom in the Matchkings.

 

[Fotis]

Here is a close up. The MKs are in the middle. Total failures as you can see. BTW these were tested from 2000-2600 fps.