300wsm vs 7mag

[cjl2010]

If recoil is an issue then maybe one should move to a smaller case or caliber. I get why people load light for caliber, I just feel they arent using the cartridge to its full potential

Right, but at the same time instead of loading super heavy for caliber, move up to a bigger caliber. I agree with you I was just pointing out a negative.

I have steel out to 1100 yards now and I shoot a ton. I refuse to kill an animal past 600 yards because that's just what I call my max. Do I really need these 156 bergers in my SS to accomplish that? No, my 140 and 147 loads are just fine and I can spot my hits much better. But for some reason I always talk myself into buying new components lol.

 

[LVJ76]

Recoil

Will it matter when taking one shot at an animal? I think the focua should be on what can kill the animal faster.

Yes they will all die with a well placed shot, but how quickly?

From reading and studying ballistics I am now a firm believer that a heavier bullet will cause more shock, more trauma and a faster kill.

I believe it was Feenix that in another thread explained to me how the heavier and higher BC bullets eventually outshoot a lighter bullet at longe range.

Under 500 yards provably wont matter much but shooting further then yes it will, heavier will work better.

 

[LVJ76]

Right, but at the same time instead of loading super heavy for caliber, move up to a bigger caliber. I agree with you I was just pointing out a negative.

I have steel out to 1100 yards now and I shoot a ton. I refuse to kill an animal past 600 yards because that's just what I call my max. Do I really need these 156 bergers in my SS to accomplish that? No, my 140 and 147 loads are just fine and I can spot my hits much better. But for some reason I always talk myself into buying new components lol.

Agree with you on this all the way. Why have 300WM and use it like a 308? Then just get a 308

 

[cjl2010]

Agree with you on this all the way. Why have 300WM and use it like a 308? Then just get a 308

I've been trying to talk myself out of always needing heavy for caliber. Guys like Steve at hammer make pretty good arguments that if you aren't killing stuff out past 600 yards or so that we might be better off with a smaller faster bullet. And in reality inside my killing range there is no benefit other than energy.

Edit:

Keep in mind I am not very good at talking myself out of things hence the 400 156 bergers I pre ordered and my second child lol

 

[FEENIX]

Will it matter when taking one shot at an animal? I think the focua should be on what can kill the animal faster.

Yes they will all die with a well placed shot, but how quickly?

From reading and studying ballistics I am now a firm believer that a heavier bullet will cause more shock, more trauma and a faster kill.

I believe it was Feenix that in another thread explained to me how the heavier and higher BC bullets eventually outshoot a lighter bullet at longe range.

Under 500 yards provably wont matter much but shooting further then yes it will, heavier will work better.

If you look at the comparison chart between the 180 and 215 Berger in #23, the 215 Berger gain the velocity at 800 yards but maintain the energy level throughout. The 180 maintains its drop advantage throughout. The proper elevation correction is critical for both bullet weight regardless of BC/drop.

 

[cjl2010]

Will it matter when taking one shot at an animal? I think the focua should be on what can kill the animal faster.

Yes they will all die with a well placed shot, but how quickly?

From reading and studying ballistics I am now a firm believer that a heavier bullet will cause more shock, more trauma and a faster kill.

I believe it was Feenix that in another thread explained to me how the heavier and higher BC bullets eventually outshoot a lighter bullet at longe range.

Under 500 yards provably wont matter much but shooting further then yes it will, heavier will work better.

Will recoil matter with just one shot on an animal? I get what you are saying but what I have noticed is that people with heavier recoiling rifles really suck at recoil management and really suck at follow up shots and I can only assume it's because they don't practice with that rifle because it really sucks to go out and get punished.

I am all for a heavier bullet killing better and faster but a big heavy bullet in the guts with no follow up or 5 in the chest from a smaller cartridge... I'll take the guy shooting the smaller easier to shoot rifle.

 

[LVJ76]

I've been trying to talk myself out of always needing heavy for caliber. Guys like Steve at hammer make pretty good arguments that if you aren't killing stuff out past 600 yards or so that we might be better off with a smaller faster bullet. And in reality inside my killing range there is no benefit other than energy.

A 140 or a 154gr bullet bullet out of my 7mm Rem Mag out to 500 yds work just perfectly fine, but for 700 or 800 a 162gr or heavier would work best.

Now most monolithic bullets retain their their original weight unlike cup and core which can shed 50% of their weight or even more in some cases depending on the design. In order to get adequate penetration a bullet needs weight, if it losses it too quickly it can cause a shalow wound that in turn can cause a slow death or even a lost animal. With monilithics you don't have to worry about that so don't need as much weight on the bullet but you do need high speed to cause bullet expansion, so lighter bullets than can go fast are required

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Right, but at the same time instead of loading super heavy for caliber, move up to a bigger caliber. I agree with you I was just pointing out a negative.

I have steel out to 1100 yards now and I shoot a ton. I refuse to kill an animal past 600 yards because that's just what I call my max. Do I really need these 156 bergers in my SS to accomplish that? No, my 140 and 147 loads are just fine and I can spot my hits much better. But for some reason I always talk myself into buying new components lol.

I have a terrible case of tinkeritis. I have to keep trying new things! I mean under 600 it doesnt matter what the bc is really. We shot 140s in our 7mm mags for years. Heck I killed my biggest deer with a 140 from my 7mm mag. I just hate switching bullets for hunting then long range target practice.

 

[xsn10s]

Recoil at this time is not an issue for me

I have a terrible case of tinkeritis. I have to keep trying new things! I mean under 600 it doesnt matter what the bc is really. We shot 140s in our 7mm mags for years. Heck I killed my biggest deer with a 140 from my 7mm mag. I just hate switching bullets for hunting then long range target practice.

I'm getting old so a bullet that does it all is more my choice. And since the OP designated his choice for LR elk I'd want at least 1500 ft/lbs energy with enough velocity for reliable expansion. That's why I choose heavy for class, the BC will be important at 800-900 yards. I'd choose between 7mm RM and the 300 WM and around a 26" barrel. Should be able to get 2950fps with the 7mm RM and 180gr or the 215gr in the 300 WM. Just my personal choice given the parameters. If recoil is an issue then choosing a lighter recoiling cartridge and closing the distance is a wise option IMO.

 

[bpcrshooter]

guess my feelings/questions are....do you shoot regularly at 8-900yrds?? Are you very, very comfortable with taking said game at that distance?? some of us spend ALL year dreaming of being able to set foot to mountain in search of a elk, Im not so sure I would take the risk of shooting one that far unless I HAD to, and 9-10 times its truly not needed, will it be more work to get closer?? heck yeah, will you remember that when its all said and done?? you damm right you will but, laying your gun up against a animal you busted your butt to get will have way more meaning then just the ol poke and hope shooting. spending a lot of time out west learning the way the winds blow takes time, shooting at sea level at the range off a bench or prone is way different then layin down on mountain side. Im not saying your a bad shooter or hunter its just food for thought, I do know this is a long range hunting fourm but, sometime people get caught up in what a gun/caliber "can" do and not what hunter can do. ohhh and 7mmRM would be my choice

 

[LVJ76]

guess my feelings/questions are....do you shoot regularly at 8-900yrds?? Are you very, very comfortable with taking said game at that distance?? some of us spend ALL year dreaming of being able to set foot to mountain in search of a elk, Im not so sure I would take the risk of shooting one that far unless I HAD to, and 9-10 times its truly not needed, will it be more work to get closer?? heck yeah, will you remember that when its all said and done?? you damm right you will but, laying your gun up against a animal you busted your butt to get will have way more meaning then just the ol poke and hope shooting. spending a lot of time out west learning the way the winds blow takes time, shooting at sea level at the range off a bench or prone is way different then layin down on mountain side. Im not saying your a bad shooter or hunter its just food for thought, I do know this is a long range hunting fourm but, sometime people get caught up in what a gun/caliber "can" do and not what hunter can do. ohhh and 7mmRM would be my choice

Hunting coues deer and Mulies in southern AZ its sometimes hard to shoot from prone position due to the steepness of the hill or all the cacti in the ground. I've found that using shooting sticks work better or offhand when a quick shot is required, one of the reasons why my shot limit is 500 yds.

 

[bpcrshooter]

I hear ya, I have family in Tucson, and we did a deer hunt a few yrs back, them darn cactus suck!!!

 

[John 264]

I'm building a Tikka 300wsm or 300 Sherman max with the new hells canyon magazine designed to run wsm/saum cases with 3.38" max length. It's going to have mike's 23" alpine 9.5tw barrel, Mesa altitude stock, should be 6-6.2#. Will run 225 freebore for shooting 215 Bergers @ 2850-2900 hopefully. Keep in mind a 7 mag pushing a 180 hybrid @ 2900+ will do very similar things ballisticly.

The 300 wsm will not run a 215 berger at 2850-2900 out of a 23" barrel if you are lucky you might get 2700 more likely 2600 a 26" 7 rem mag with 180 Berger will do 2900 so go with the 7 mag

 

[wbm]

Having built, loaded for and hunted with both I would go with the 7mm Magnum.