My advice is to start around 63grs and work your way up.I recently tested some Reloader-17 with 165gr bullets.I started three grains below Alliant's max of 68grs.65.0 grains gave me 3155fps and 66.0grs gave me 3228fps.I never shot any of my higher charges because my groups opened way up (2" and 4") on these loads and I really didn't see them getting better if I did.The scary thing is I saw no pressure signs,but my groups and velocities was telling me to quit testing right there.I might test some more with Reloader-17,but it will be in the 63-64gr range.Rule to remember"EVERY RIFLE IS DIFFERENT"!!!!!