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.300 Norma magnum for hunting??
- Thread starter Danehunter
- Start date
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http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/300-norma-mag-multicam-lefty-ax-new-153560/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/300-norma-mag-multicam-lefty-ax-new-153560/
Hi guys, it's my first time on a forum. I would like to ask some advice from you.
I have wanted to build a 300NM for the past 18 months now, but struggling with a few decisions. I have decided on a make barrel, twist rate, barrel profile and length for a specific bullet for ultra long range shooting - hunting included. I have decided on a scope as well with a specific reticle . The things that I have issues at the moment is deciding on a rifle action, configuration and well as a suitable stock. I am aware of all the Remington cloned rifle actions in the States, but I was looking at a Barnard action from New Zealand. Only because of the reputation amongst the world class competitors. Please bear with me, I don't want to cause a heated discussion about the reputation of other actions!
After speaking to the F-Class open world champion in Brisbane, Australia, he confirmed that I should use a Barnard action, but a single shot?!!I always wanted a magazine fed weapon. Here is why he said it: With a higher recoil weapon, if you have bullets in a magazine fed weapon whilst firing the weapon, the recoil could change the seating depth of the bullet. That in turn could cause inconstancies in pressures and could change your standard deviation of the muzzle velocities from one bullet to the next one you might have to take. As we all know, the point of impact in elevation will the change on the targets end not really at short range necessarily but definitely at longer ranges.Guys, I know these variations under a 800 yard shot might not make a difference, but I am talking about taking longer shots over 1000 yards.All of this will depend on the neck tension of the bullets of course, however, you might not get the best accuracy out of the gun with a tighter neck tension. What is your view on this?
The second thing he said was, that the 230grn Berger Hybrid bullets will not fit into a Accuracy International 5 round magazine because of the long ogive shape.(I do know this is actually a target bullet) Is that so? Will that bullet in that configuration not fit into a AI mag?? What can I do to make it fit without compromising accuracy?
Thirdly, I want to get a 100% Carbon tactical stock or alternatively a AIAX stock because of it's versatility. The problem again, is my choice in having a Barnard action that only fits in two stocks that I know of. Barnard's own and a carbon fibre made by this F- Class world champion called Wild Dog tactical stock. I do not like the Barnard stock and the Wild Dog tactical stock is made for single shot actions only in the 300 NM calibre that I am trying to put together. Barnard actions comes with it's own triggers that is very good and should I decide to go for another trigger, my choice is CG extreme on a different action.
I know this is a mouth full, but I would like to have your opinion if possible! I don't want to make any mistakes here!
I have wanted to build a 300NM for the past 18 months now, but struggling with a few decisions. I have decided on a make barrel, twist rate, barrel profile and length for a specific bullet for ultra long range shooting - hunting included. I have decided on a scope as well with a specific reticle . The things that I have issues at the moment is deciding on a rifle action, configuration and well as a suitable stock. I am aware of all the Remington cloned rifle actions in the States, but I was looking at a Barnard action from New Zealand. Only because of the reputation amongst the world class competitors. Please bear with me, I don't want to cause a heated discussion about the reputation of other actions!
After speaking to the F-Class open world champion in Brisbane, Australia, he confirmed that I should use a Barnard action, but a single shot?!!I always wanted a magazine fed weapon. Here is why he said it: With a higher recoil weapon, if you have bullets in a magazine fed weapon whilst firing the weapon, the recoil could change the seating depth of the bullet. That in turn could cause inconstancies in pressures and could change your standard deviation of the muzzle velocities from one bullet to the next one you might have to take. As we all know, the point of impact in elevation will the change on the targets end not really at short range necessarily but definitely at longer ranges.Guys, I know these variations under a 800 yard shot might not make a difference, but I am talking about taking longer shots over 1000 yards.All of this will depend on the neck tension of the bullets of course, however, you might not get the best accuracy out of the gun with a tighter neck tension. What is your view on this?
The second thing he said was, that the 230grn Berger Hybrid bullets will not fit into a Accuracy International 5 round magazine because of the long ogive shape.(I do know this is actually a target bullet) Is that so? Will that bullet in that configuration not fit into a AI mag?? What can I do to make it fit without compromising accuracy?
Thirdly, I want to get a 100% Carbon tactical stock or alternatively a AIAX stock because of it's versatility. The problem again, is my choice in having a Barnard action that only fits in two stocks that I know of. Barnard's own and a carbon fibre made by this F- Class world champion called Wild Dog tactical stock. I do not like the Barnard stock and the Wild Dog tactical stock is made for single shot actions only in the 300 NM calibre that I am trying to put together. Barnard actions comes with it's own triggers that is very good and should I decide to go for another trigger, my choice is CG extreme on a different action.
I know this is a mouth full, but I would like to have your opinion if possible! I don't want to make any mistakes here!
Danehunter
Well-Known Member
kroo,
I don't know if a Barnard action has a 3 lug bolt but I'd try for an action that does. The bold lift is lower not only giving better scope clearance but a faster cycling of the action.
I don't know if a Barnard action has a 3 lug bolt but I'd try for an action that does. The bold lift is lower not only giving better scope clearance but a faster cycling of the action.
Litehiker,
I am almost sure the Barnard action has got a 3 lug bolt. I do get what you say about the hight of the bolt lift and I am almost sure it will not be a problem for fast bolt cycling. Especially the Accuracy International bolt design with the curved bolt handle, however, how fast do you want to cycle the bolt after taking a long range shot over 1000 yards? Do you perhaps think you can get away with a single shot bolt action rifle for long range shooting? (hunting included)
Here is the link to the action I am looking at:Model PL Action
I know, this action does not look as good as the other actions available! However, I can assure you it is one of the most accurate actions ever made.
I am almost sure the Barnard action has got a 3 lug bolt. I do get what you say about the hight of the bolt lift and I am almost sure it will not be a problem for fast bolt cycling. Especially the Accuracy International bolt design with the curved bolt handle, however, how fast do you want to cycle the bolt after taking a long range shot over 1000 yards? Do you perhaps think you can get away with a single shot bolt action rifle for long range shooting? (hunting included)
Here is the link to the action I am looking at:Model PL Action
I know, this action does not look as good as the other actions available! However, I can assure you it is one of the most accurate actions ever made.
regularjoe
Well-Known Member
KAROO
I have a .300 NM for hunting that uses a BAT action and AI mags. I have not experienced the recoil related issues you mentioned. I shoot the Berger 230 and the Elk here in Idaho dont like it a bit! My rifle is in a Manners T2 carbon fiber stock and a Broughton 9 Twist barrel. I dont think a better long range hunting rifle exists.
Good luck!
I have a .300 NM for hunting that uses a BAT action and AI mags. I have not experienced the recoil related issues you mentioned. I shoot the Berger 230 and the Elk here in Idaho dont like it a bit! My rifle is in a Manners T2 carbon fiber stock and a Broughton 9 Twist barrel. I dont think a better long range hunting rifle exists.
Good luck!
Kiwi Greg
Well-Known Member
Yes the Barnard has three lugs, I have various different models of their actions.
The only things wrong with them if you were to be super critical is they are heavy, easily rectified by machining.
The bolt can get "sticky" over time in field hunting conditions with a build up of grit & debris, easily rectified by fluting and/or proper maintenance.
The excellent Barnard trigger in the big actions is prone to getting fill of cleaner & debris if not looked after properly.
The lack of a magazine is no handicap in a long range hunting rifle especially in the bigger calibres where a magazine is redundant anyway if the high BC projectiles are used to their full potential.
With a bit of work the Barnard alloy bedding block can be put into suitable stocks, like the McMillan A3 & A5.
The XLR chassis also take the various Barnard actions, these are excellent for the larger calibres where weight isn't a restriction.
Thanks for all the input guys! This is really valuable information for me as I do not want to rush into anything with the build of this gun!Can anyone give me some advice on load combinations? I am going to try and get some Lapua brass for it - not sure if it is available in that calibre yet.
The barrel will be specially reamed for the 230grn Berger VLD bullet, but I am interested in the 215grn range as well. I am actually a Hornady fan when it comes to hunting and I know how accurate Berger bullets are for target shooing. I use it myself and nothing else. How would the Berger preform on animals at longer ranges without getting influenced by Berger's marketing strategy on their website! Has anyone got some real experience on that bullet on game at longer ranges. The target line of Bergers are really bad for hunting, but I am aware that 230grn Berger bullets are actually a target bullet as well as far as I know!
What about the 208grn Hornady Amax. That is a target bullet as well, but it does have a thin jacket compare to the Berger target range bullets. Will the Hornady 208's not preform better on game that is further away with much lower muzzle velocities? The 208's will mushroom better at extended ranges say 600yards and further? At short range it will make a mess of anything that is alive. The bullet will expand too rapidly in my opinion and fragment everywhere.
I also want to experiment with sub sonic rounds because of the fact that I will have a 26" 1:8 twist barrel that has a bit faster twist rate than normal or should I say what everyone else is using. Is that a bad idea? Will it work? I have done it in .308 with some Trail boss powder and heavier bullets. Has anyone got any advice here? It is just a thought so hopefully I will not get too much abuse on this forum for this idea!
The gun I want to get built soon needs to be as versatile as possible so I can use it in more than one type of shoot. Long range hunting, F class(just for fun) and maybe some close range stalking as well with the sub sonic loads.
Looking forward hearing from everyone,
Karoo.
The barrel will be specially reamed for the 230grn Berger VLD bullet, but I am interested in the 215grn range as well. I am actually a Hornady fan when it comes to hunting and I know how accurate Berger bullets are for target shooing. I use it myself and nothing else. How would the Berger preform on animals at longer ranges without getting influenced by Berger's marketing strategy on their website! Has anyone got some real experience on that bullet on game at longer ranges. The target line of Bergers are really bad for hunting, but I am aware that 230grn Berger bullets are actually a target bullet as well as far as I know!
What about the 208grn Hornady Amax. That is a target bullet as well, but it does have a thin jacket compare to the Berger target range bullets. Will the Hornady 208's not preform better on game that is further away with much lower muzzle velocities? The 208's will mushroom better at extended ranges say 600yards and further? At short range it will make a mess of anything that is alive. The bullet will expand too rapidly in my opinion and fragment everywhere.
I also want to experiment with sub sonic rounds because of the fact that I will have a 26" 1:8 twist barrel that has a bit faster twist rate than normal or should I say what everyone else is using. Is that a bad idea? Will it work? I have done it in .308 with some Trail boss powder and heavier bullets. Has anyone got any advice here? It is just a thought so hopefully I will not get too much abuse on this forum for this idea!
The gun I want to get built soon needs to be as versatile as possible so I can use it in more than one type of shoot. Long range hunting, F class(just for fun) and maybe some close range stalking as well with the sub sonic loads.
Looking forward hearing from everyone,
Karoo.
Kiwi Greg
Well-Known Member
An 8 twist & 208s will end in tears at Norma mag velocities.
The Berger 215 or 230 Target hybrids would be my pick for hunting.
They will be more aggressive with your 8 twist than the traditional 10 twist.
I will be shooting 230s out of a lightweight 9 twist 300 Norma mag soon unless someone twists my arm & buys my Defiance action
The Berger 215 or 230 Target hybrids would be my pick for hunting.
They will be more aggressive with your 8 twist than the traditional 10 twist.
I will be shooting 230s out of a lightweight 9 twist 300 Norma mag soon unless someone twists my arm & buys my Defiance action
Kiwi Greg
Well-Known Member
I have a client that had serious problems with 208s in a short barrelled 8 twist 300 wsm @ 2700 fps up close, inside 100 yards.
I much prefer 1 load for everything, just dial, keeps it really simple.
No different zeros, no accuracy inconsistences caused by different powders or jackets in the bore.
One lot of projectiles, powders, primers & die set ups
That makes perfect sense and I could not agree more with you on that one. My question is just how will the 230grn Berger VLD's preform on game? Will the 230grn be a bad choice or will the 215grn Bergers do a better job at longer distances?(Not in regards to having a BC difference but performance on expansion)
I really do like Berger bullets. They have preformed extremely well in the .308 155.5grn and 155grn Hybrid's category during target rifle shooting. I have nothing but good things to say about the make. I am not so sure about hunting with them though...I just need a bit of input from the guys if possible.
I really do like Berger bullets. They have preformed extremely well in the .308 155.5grn and 155grn Hybrid's category during target rifle shooting. I have nothing but good things to say about the make. I am not so sure about hunting with them though...I just need a bit of input from the guys if possible.
