I received a box of 180 grn SST bullets from a friend. I noticed that they have a cannelure on them. Do I have to seat the bullet to crimp right on the cannelure or can I seat it as needed. Also do the cannelures pose any problem with accuracy if not seated to them. PS I am shooting a 300 win mag.
30 cal Hornady SST
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jcpython357
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samson, Just seat them as needed, the cannelure shouldn't affect accuracy, at least not from I've seen when shooting with them. Jay
Mysticplayer
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The 165 30 cal SST are the most accurate hunting bullet I have ever used, equal to match bullet. The canneleur will not affect accuracy and does not need to be seated to this level.
Jerry
Jerry
long action
Well-Known Member
180 SST in my 300 Win mag. Six shots in one hole. Just tutching the lands.
Rifleman 7
Active Member
Your mileage may vary. Seated magazine length in a SS M 70 300 RUM, the 165 SSTs shot poor. What I found that worked in this particular rifle was Sierra 164 HP Game Kings. It's ogive design got the bullet closer to the lands - less jump. Which is what this rifle needed.
Robert A. Rinker states in his book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" in Chapter 16, Bullet Design & Performance, page 213 Notes On Bullets:
"Bullets with grooves crimped around their body have lower accuracy because the bullet is deformed in an area that disrupts the flow of air and disturbs the aerodynamic stability. Even if the groove is perfectly even and uniform around its full length, which it rarely will be, it will still lower accuracy. It will also reduce the life of the case from over-working the metal. This can cause splits at the mouth that are unnecessary. Factory ammo... ."
From my experience, I will not disagree with Rinker.
Robert A. Rinker states in his book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" in Chapter 16, Bullet Design & Performance, page 213 Notes On Bullets:
"Bullets with grooves crimped around their body have lower accuracy because the bullet is deformed in an area that disrupts the flow of air and disturbs the aerodynamic stability. Even if the groove is perfectly even and uniform around its full length, which it rarely will be, it will still lower accuracy. It will also reduce the life of the case from over-working the metal. This can cause splits at the mouth that are unnecessary. Factory ammo... ."
From my experience, I will not disagree with Rinker.
Mysticplayer
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Sorry to disagree with Mr. Rinker but the new SST's are match accurate. They will shoot in the 1's & 2's. The Interlocks are also capable of sub 1/2 MOA accuracy. Both of these have cannelures.
If mag length limits getting the ogive close to the lands, go to a lighter SST. The SST are very long for their weight and can cause issues with ogive/rifle land distances. That long length means that they have a very high BC and fly very flat.
The bullets do not need to be seated so that the case mouth is in the cannelure. In this redesign, the cannelure acts more to limit bullet expansion then for crimping.
Jerry
If mag length limits getting the ogive close to the lands, go to a lighter SST. The SST are very long for their weight and can cause issues with ogive/rifle land distances. That long length means that they have a very high BC and fly very flat.
The bullets do not need to be seated so that the case mouth is in the cannelure. In this redesign, the cannelure acts more to limit bullet expansion then for crimping.
Jerry
I have been patiently waiting for this subject to come up. I have not been overly successful with the Hornady SSTs.
I have had good results with the Hornady AMAX, Nosler BT and Partitions.
This gives me some incentive to see if I can do better with the SSTs.
Thanks,
Doug
I have had good results with the Hornady AMAX, Nosler BT and Partitions.
This gives me some incentive to see if I can do better with the SSTs.
Thanks,
Doug
Rifleman 7
Active Member
Jerry, to heck with what bullet you're using. What I want to know is what rifle you're using and who built it. If it'll shoots that good with an SST it ought to shoot in the ones or zeros with custom bullets such as BIB, Chism, Fowler, etc.
In a rack full of .30 rifles I've loaded for, I've never had a Hornady or Nosler bullet shoot as well as a Sierra, Berger, or Lapua. That's just been MY results. An example is the last rifle I did load development for. A customer had a box stock Winchester SS 300 RUM. In short order it proved to be a *** in its unbedded factory stock with Remington Green Box ammo.
Now, the customer wanted to shoot a 165 weight bullet so that's what he paid me to figure out. The stock was pillar and glass bedded and allen head action screws installed so we could use an inch pound wrench.
Prior to this work the rifle's accuracy level made it better suited as a club than an effective shooten' iron. We were looking at 3 shoots anywhere in a one foot square area at 100 yards.
For load development I started with several match bullets seated past magazine length to nearly touch the lands. Out of the gate Lapua 167s printed a .564" 3-shot group. Several other combinations later, 165 SSTs printed a 2.25".
On another day 168 SMKs showed a .592" while a 165 Hornady BTSP printed 2.75" and 165 Nosler Ballistic tips a 1.25". But the short of it is that the customer wanted a 165 weight load that is predictable with a magazine length COL.
I decided to try 165 Sierra HP Game Kings. Seated magazine length they shoot around .75" on most outings. The Nosler would be a second choice, but I never could get them to shoot less than one inch.
We all know that rifles are individuals and have their likes and dislikes. You have to go with what works.
In a rack full of .30 rifles I've loaded for, I've never had a Hornady or Nosler bullet shoot as well as a Sierra, Berger, or Lapua. That's just been MY results. An example is the last rifle I did load development for. A customer had a box stock Winchester SS 300 RUM. In short order it proved to be a *** in its unbedded factory stock with Remington Green Box ammo.
Now, the customer wanted to shoot a 165 weight bullet so that's what he paid me to figure out. The stock was pillar and glass bedded and allen head action screws installed so we could use an inch pound wrench.
Prior to this work the rifle's accuracy level made it better suited as a club than an effective shooten' iron. We were looking at 3 shoots anywhere in a one foot square area at 100 yards.
For load development I started with several match bullets seated past magazine length to nearly touch the lands. Out of the gate Lapua 167s printed a .564" 3-shot group. Several other combinations later, 165 SSTs printed a 2.25".
On another day 168 SMKs showed a .592" while a 165 Hornady BTSP printed 2.75" and 165 Nosler Ballistic tips a 1.25". But the short of it is that the customer wanted a 165 weight load that is predictable with a magazine length COL.
I decided to try 165 Sierra HP Game Kings. Seated magazine length they shoot around .75" on most outings. The Nosler would be a second choice, but I never could get them to shoot less than one inch.
We all know that rifles are individuals and have their likes and dislikes. You have to go with what works.
Mysticplayer
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Rifleman7,
The Gibbs is a parts special. The action came from a used Parker Hale Midland with a busted stock, the barrel - a shot out 308 match barrel with serious throat erosion ( I wish I knew who made this barrel), spare gunstock at a gunshow.
Bevon King in northern BC did the rechambering to Gibbs. Tom Norman in Abbotsford did the initial install and 308match rechamber (shot very well too, just wanted more poop for LR hunting). No action work done.
Goes to show that a good barrel, installed properly does more for accuracy then all the action tweaking, etc. out there. The lock up of the bolt is tight but wobbles like
The limiting factor in this rifle is not the bullets but the stock. Using a hunting style stock with a rounded forend, the groups are 25 to 50% bigger then the flat bottom BR style stock I also have for this action. All properly bedded of course.
This rifle has already shot in the .1's with the SST at 100yds.
So far, my experience with Hornady bullets is the opposite of yours. Most every rifle I use them in shoot better. Go figure. The Hornady bullets do have a much different profile and I feel they shoot best when the ogive is close to the lands. This is not always possible with certain throats/magazine combos.
These "long" throats would favor the Sierra, etc. that have the ogive closer to the point. Could explain why you are also having issues the the Ballistic Tip, another match accurate bullet. The bullets need to be fully engraved by the rifling before leaving the neck of the case.
Did I mention that I just shot a 3 rd group at 680yds, in no wind, that measured 2 3/8" widest spread. Second group, light gusty wind, had two inside 2" with the third 8" away (oops). Going to do lots more shooting with this rig to learn how to read the wind. Brass is LC69 military stuff, offset flash holes and all.
Stock shape and wind will do more to screw up an accurate rifle then all the brass prep put together. Of course, ammo must use good bullets and be assembled straight.
Jerry
The Gibbs is a parts special. The action came from a used Parker Hale Midland with a busted stock, the barrel - a shot out 308 match barrel with serious throat erosion ( I wish I knew who made this barrel), spare gunstock at a gunshow.
Bevon King in northern BC did the rechambering to Gibbs. Tom Norman in Abbotsford did the initial install and 308match rechamber (shot very well too, just wanted more poop for LR hunting). No action work done.
Goes to show that a good barrel, installed properly does more for accuracy then all the action tweaking, etc. out there. The lock up of the bolt is tight but wobbles like
The limiting factor in this rifle is not the bullets but the stock. Using a hunting style stock with a rounded forend, the groups are 25 to 50% bigger then the flat bottom BR style stock I also have for this action. All properly bedded of course.
This rifle has already shot in the .1's with the SST at 100yds.
So far, my experience with Hornady bullets is the opposite of yours. Most every rifle I use them in shoot better. Go figure. The Hornady bullets do have a much different profile and I feel they shoot best when the ogive is close to the lands. This is not always possible with certain throats/magazine combos.
These "long" throats would favor the Sierra, etc. that have the ogive closer to the point. Could explain why you are also having issues the the Ballistic Tip, another match accurate bullet. The bullets need to be fully engraved by the rifling before leaving the neck of the case.
Did I mention that I just shot a 3 rd group at 680yds, in no wind, that measured 2 3/8" widest spread. Second group, light gusty wind, had two inside 2" with the third 8" away (oops). Going to do lots more shooting with this rig to learn how to read the wind. Brass is LC69 military stuff, offset flash holes and all.
Stock shape and wind will do more to screw up an accurate rifle then all the brass prep put together. Of course, ammo must use good bullets and be assembled straight.
Jerry
Ian M
Well-Known Member
Jerry,
Just a little note FYI, the Interbonds do not have a cannelure. Nor do the Accubonds. Not sure if other calibers will but the .30's that I am shooting do not.
Although your rig has done good, still takes a hell of a shooter to break 1/2" consistently. Good shooting.
I find that my skills take a bunch of polishing each spring, more insentive to shoot a lot to get back to were the rifles and loads are capable of performing.
Just a little note FYI, the Interbonds do not have a cannelure. Nor do the Accubonds. Not sure if other calibers will but the .30's that I am shooting do not.
Although your rig has done good, still takes a hell of a shooter to break 1/2" consistently. Good shooting.
I find that my skills take a bunch of polishing each spring, more insentive to shoot a lot to get back to were the rifles and loads are capable of performing.
jcpython357
Well-Known Member
ian, What does the interbonds have for an ogive? Secant like the rest of Hornady? I notice what Jerry said about Hornady and Sierra that the Hornady because of their ogive type like to be seated close to the lands, in my 6mm Rem. 75gr. Sierra HP have shot as small as .217" for 5 shots, 100yds, being .040" off the lands, for the 75 Hornady I shot a best .322" at .005" off.Go figure.
Jay
Ian M
Well-Known Member
JAY,
I have to be honest and tell you that I do not have a clue what kind of ogive the Hornadys have. But I would be surprised if they are anything other than what they have advertised for so long - secant ogive.
The ogive is fairly pronouned where it starts, almost a ring like all my other Hornady bullets so I would suggest it is a secant ogive. Held an interbond beside an accubond and the Nosler is much smoother, less definite where it starts to taper to the nose.
I wouldn't know a secant ogive if one walked up and kicked me in the butt, but assume that the almost shoulder-like contour is a secant ogive. I should probably read my Hornady manual and it will no doubt tell me this stuff, but I would forget it about as fast as the last time I looked it up. I would rather shoot the suckers than look at their shape.
I have to be honest and tell you that I do not have a clue what kind of ogive the Hornadys have. But I would be surprised if they are anything other than what they have advertised for so long - secant ogive.
The ogive is fairly pronouned where it starts, almost a ring like all my other Hornady bullets so I would suggest it is a secant ogive. Held an interbond beside an accubond and the Nosler is much smoother, less definite where it starts to taper to the nose.
I wouldn't know a secant ogive if one walked up and kicked me in the butt, but assume that the almost shoulder-like contour is a secant ogive. I should probably read my Hornady manual and it will no doubt tell me this stuff, but I would forget it about as fast as the last time I looked it up. I would rather shoot the suckers than look at their shape.
Tim Behle
Well-Known Member
Ian,
I know the feeling. It sure would be nice if some good hearted person would explain all of this ogive stuff in a way that everyone would understand.
Would detailed pictures or drawings be too much to hope for?
Tim
I know the feeling. It sure would be nice if some good hearted person would explain all of this ogive stuff in a way that everyone would understand.
Would detailed pictures or drawings be too much to hope for?
Tim
Rifleman 7
Active Member
Yes, go figure.
