264 win mag headspace question/problem

[aachey]

Reloading for a buddys 264 win mag. Full disclosure it has an aftermarket barrel on a 700 action and stock. All i have for brass is what id assume to be shot through it already, and no factory new brass. My rcbs fl resizing die is as low as it goes but with the sharpie trick i get marks on the shoulder and a tighter than preferred bolt closing. A couple cases are 1-2 thou shorter(hornady measuring tools) and the bolt closes with ease. But the majority close with some resist on the bolt. More than id like to feel. The die cant go any lower tho. Also all the cases measure 2.488. I dont want to assume it has a tight headspace(i dont have a guage) but given the aftermarket barrel id obviously lean that way. Also the solid ring at the top of the should is from the measuring tool.

 

[codyadams]

Sounds like the shoulder needs bumped a couple more thou. Two things you can do, I believe Redding makes shell holders that are longer/shorter allowing for adjustments for more or less bump. The other option is get your shell holder, and with either a sanding disk or a diamond sharpening stone if it doesn't need much, take a few thousands off the face of the shell holder where the die makes contact, allowing for a little more shoulder bump. If you can manage to only remove what more you need to bump, it will make setting the die up easy, just until the die touches that shell holder. Had to do that with a 7mm rem mag once.

 

[sedancowboy]

Cody is correct in that you can take a few Thousands off the face of the shell holder with either emory or a stone. I usually turn the shell holder upside down on a very flat surface and use fine emory paper. The Redding Competition shell holders only help with less sizing not more so they would not work in your case where you need more sizing or less headspace either way you want to say it.

 

[RegionRat]

Just a suggestion, but I would also carefully micrometer check the diameters between ones that close easy and ones that don't.

Sometimes, the chamber, brass, and dies are not coordinated in diameter, not just lengths.

 

[aachey]

Thats what i was thinking, taking a little material off the die. I also wondered as well if its possibly a circumference issue with the brass or chamber or both.

 

[cape cove]

May not be a headspace ( shoulder bump ) problem. Could be the portion just north of the belt has expanded to the point of hard chambering. If this is the problem then there are certain things to try.

 

[Frog4aday]

Like using this collet die from Larry Willis:

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment

Our patented resizing die can reload Winchester, Remington and Weatherby belted magnums up to 20 times, instead of just 2 or 3 times and the top of the die is a chamber width gauge.

www.larrywillis.com

 

[codyadams]

Thats what i was thinking, taking a little material off the die. I also wondered as well if its possibly a circumference issue with the brass or chamber or both.

Take material off the shell holder, not the die, if you go this route. As stated, also check just above the belt if taking a little bit off the shell holder doesn't do the trick. The solution for that problem is as Frog and cape stated, the collet die.

 

[Pdvdh]

If the resized shoulders aren't set back enough in your resizing die, remove material from either the top face of the shell holder, or the bottom face of the resizing die.
Either will serve the purpose of allowing the case shoulder to be set back further while resizing.

Also, if some fired case shoulders resize sufficiently, and some don't, it could indicate the case necks and shoulders are stiffened up from repetitive resizing/firing cycles. If so, annealing the case neck/shoulder junction will help get consistent shoulder setbacks during resizing.

 

[doverpack12]

Cody is correct in that you can take a few Thousands off the face of the shell holder with either emory or a stone. I usually turn the shell holder upside down on a very flat surface and use fine emory paper. The Redding Competition shell holders only help with less sizing not more so they would not work in your case where you need more sizing or less headspace either way you want to say it.

Redding shell holder sets result in more sizing. First size matches factory shell plates and each step goes another 0.02". I use them on several rifles and regularly end up on the +0.06 holder. These will do the same thing as sanding down the holder you have. As others have said above it's the shoulder or base just above the belt.

As you sand or use the shell holder set, initially brass shoulders get longer as it is squeezed more before the shoulder sets back for resistance free chambering. More sizing means the brass has to grow somewhere.

 

[aachey]

I actually have the willis die already. I guess I can try that. I did measure above the belt but I was only seeing .0005 to .001 difference. unless that is enough to make it tight.

 

[Hard rock]

Reloading for a buddys 264 win mag. Full disclosure it has an aftermarket barrel on a 700 action and stock. All i have for brass is what id assume to be shot through it already, and no factory new brass. My rcbs fl resizing die is as low as it goes but with the sharpie trick i get marks on the shoulder and a tighter than preferred bolt closing. A couple cases are 1-2 thou shorter(hornady measuring tools) and the bolt closes with ease. But the majority close with some resist on the bolt. More than id like to feel. The die cant go any lower tho. Also all the cases measure 2.488. I dont want to assume it has a tight headspace(i dont have a guage) but given the aftermarket barrel id obviously lean that way. Also the solid ring at the top of the should is from the measuring tool.

I would be careful with the assumption that brass you have was fired in his rifle , verify that first , then proceed on I've seen brass fired in another rifle that won't full length size too fit with ease in another rifle .Also a tight headspace is better than too much , as you most likely know , a little resistance closing the bolt is a good thing imo. The advice you are getting is sound advice from other posters.

 

[sedancowboy]

Redding shell holder sets result in more sizing. First size matches factory shell plates and each step goes another 0.02". I use them on several rifles and regularly end up on the +0.06 holder. These will do the same thing as sanding down the holder you have. As others have said above it's the shoulder or base just above the belt.

As you sand or use the shell holder set, initially brass shoulders get longer as it is squeezed more before the shoulder sets back for resistance free chambering. More sizing means the brass has to grow somewhere.

I don't want to derail this thread with a argument about Redding Competition shell holders but you are incorrect. A standard shell holder is .125 in height. The Redding Competition Shell holders start at .127 in height which is .002 less sizing. Meaning that the case goes into the die .002 less than a standard shell holder. They go from .127 to .135 which is .010 taller than a standard shell holder.
Now the reason for the confusion is that the directions state that you start with the .010 shell holder which is the tallest and if you want more sizing you go the the next lowest but at no time do they size as much as a standard shell holder that is .125 tall.
There are many threads that have been derailed with this subject and I hope this is not the case here.

 

[RegionRat]

Redding shell holder sets result in more sizing. First size matches factory shell plates and each step goes another 0.02". I use them on several rifles and regularly end up on the +0.06 holder. These will do the same thing as sanding down the holder you have. As others have said above it's the shoulder or base just above the belt.

The Redding incremental shell holder set does the opposite of this.

Redding's shell holders are taller by the amount stamped on them in thousandths of an inch, so if the standard shell holder is 0.125", then the +2 shell holder is 0.127", the +4 is 0.129" and so on.

Sanding a shell holder down presumably brings the 0.125" dimension down and allows the die to come closer to the base of the case head.

Also, keep in mind that lengths and diameters are weakly coupled by the geometry of the design, so if the diameters are the real problem, squishing down the die is a weak way to reduce the diameter. When a diameter is the problem in instances like this one, we either need the L.W. Collet Sizer to reduce the value above the belt, or we end up needing a custom die.

Larry passed away recently, but turned the company over to others about five or six years ago and they still produce his die in batches.

ETA: if it turns out to be the diameters, see if the gunsmith who cut that chamber is willing to correct it. If not, a chamber cast will help debug the issue of maybe needing a custom die. Usually a benefit to owning a Go-Gage. You can reference you comparators to the Go-Gage and see if the shoulder datum length of the chamber or the ammo is a problem.