250g .308 WildCat?

[jmden]

I spent some time searching but couldn't turn anything up on this. Seems like last year about this time there was talk of this bullet. Anybody been using it? How is it working on big game? Velocities? Powder and charge for what case? What BC is being used?

Thank you.

 

[davewilson]

not sure about this but i think all of the "talk" was related to a 7mm-250 gr bullet, not 30 cal.

 

[Jon A]

There was talk of a 250 grain .308 Wildcat. The latest as I have it from Richard is this:

The jackets he currently has will be better suited to a 265--they're tapered and trimming them back to make a 250 would make them too thick at the point. All he's waiting on is the punch to form the boattail (these jackets will require one). That also opens the possibility of bonded core RBBT's in the future. Yum. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I've done some initial testing with some prototypes without the boattail--the whole thing just filled with lead. They weighed in at 290 grains. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I only shot a few and only out to 300 yds but they seemed to shoot pretty well. My 1:9 twist 3-groove seemed to handle them just fine. The load I settled on was 95 grains US 869 and they clocked around 2680 from the 26.7" barrel. That was nice and mild, I ran them up to 2824 fps before getting noticable pressure signs.

Based upon that and my experience with the 240's, I expect the 265's (exactly between 240 and 290) will run in the 2825-2850 fps range from my rifle with a very mild "safe for hot weather" load. Those with 30"+ barrels would be able to push them right to or beyond 3000 fps. Considering this thing should have a BC that beats the 300 grain .338 SMK (just my guess), this bullet ought to put the ol' 300 RUM into a whole different class than where it is now.

I think Richard did say he also ordered shorter jackets for 240-250 grain 30's, but who knows when they'll show up.

Hopefully I'll have more info in the near future. I know I've been saying that for a while, but I guess good things come to those who wait...or something like that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jmden]

Jon A,

That is great news. Please keep us posted. A bonded 240, 250 or 265g? That would put the big 30's in a whole new class! I've got the reamer and gauge for my 300RUMBO (my design AI'ed, short-necked and blown out), I'm just waiting to burn up my current barrel.

I've got a couple of other questions specifically for you:

1. I noticed in an earlier post you had some pics of your 300RUM with what appeard to be your ballistic chart printed on a 'sticker' affixed to your stock. How did you do that?

2. How is the 300RUM Nosler brass doing for you? What do you think is the difference between Nosler and Rem brass with your experience so far?

Thanks,

Jon

 

[Jon A]

[ QUOTE ]
A bonded 240, 250 or 265g? That would put the big 30's in a whole new class!

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed it would. An update on that front:

Richard has the punches and has made some bullets! I was a bit mistaken in the weights these jackets would provide as it seems the punch stretches the jackets more than I realized. The short of it is he can now make RBBT ULD's from 265 to 300 grains, bonded or unbonded with the jackets he has now. And it appears his shorter jacket order is close to completion which will allow bullets down to 235 grains which might be better suited for the WSM/Win Mags, etc.

It's finally happening. I have some bonded 265 RBBT's and some unbonded 290 RBBT's on the way. The BC's of these things should be mindblowing. I don't know how well my rifle will handle the 290 RBBT's yet since they'll be longer than the FB's I tried, but there's only one way to find out. And an update on that--I had a couple left and did whack the gong at 700 with them so the 290 FB's certainly work in my rifle. We'll see if it can handle the longer RBBT version, but I'm 100% confident the 265's will be golden.

And the .308" caliber rises from the ashes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ QUOTE ]
1. I noticed in an earlier post you had some pics of your 300RUM with what appeard to be your ballistic chart printed on a 'sticker' affixed to your stock. How did you do that?

[/ QUOTE ]
I did that with Avery Label Paper. Just cut it out and stick it on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif In the past I just used paper taped on with clear packing tape (drop chart made from a spreadsheet like the one in the sticky). That worked fine, but it did bother me a bit with only the edges of the tape around the chart sticking to the stock. Probably not a problem, but since I had the paper I decided to play around....

I've found using the labels directly on anything is a bad idea. When you take them off the paper rips from the glue and you're left with a sticky, gooey lable outline that's probably familiar to anybody who has taken the wrong sticker off something and had a PITA cleaning the residue.

I now stick the Avery labels directly onto the roll of packing tape. Then cut them out together. The packing tape will come off of stuff cleanly and you get good adhesion over the whole surface. But I determined that this wasn't as durable/weatherproof as I wanted, so in addition to the above, I add another layer of packing tape on top of the label.

In the end, it isn't much different than taping on a piece of paper but I had the stuff laying around. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But I like it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Here's a pic of the actual chart I used this season:

[ QUOTE ]
2. How is the 300RUM Nosler brass doing for you? What do you think is the difference between Nosler and Rem brass with your experience so far?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have anything more to say beyond the initial notice of the consistency, the thicker base I noticed sectioning, etc. The way things turned out, I've only ended up fireforming about 30 cases so I haven't even resized one yet! Hey, I already had a bunch of ammo loaded up before they got here..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I should know more soon. When my big heavies from Richard arrive, I'll try and test them out in the Nosler fireformed cases.

 

[royinidaho]

Re: 250g .308 WildCat? RE: Your Drop Chart

Jon A,

What scope is that drop chart for?

1/4 Mil clicks?

Number jumps @ 1K and 1500?

Seems like it is a good thing if reticle and clicks are the same units. Not confusing like Mil Dot ret. and 0.25 Minute clicks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

What's your thinking/use of the 50yd increments? With 25yd increments of mils and clicks for elevation and windage I've nearly wall papered the side of my stock. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif If I make the the print too small I look like a **** gecko bobbing its head trying to get the trifocals to focus......

I'm always willing to learn. But I am kinda slow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jmden]

A bonded 265g ULD RBBT? That is great news! Do you think a 1 in 10 will stabilize this? Please keep us informed as you work these up.

Be sure and let us know what the Oehler's are saying in terms of velocity and BC!

I should give Richard an order today...265g bonded ULD RBBT and larger?--I can't hardly believe it...that'll really breath life into the big .30's.

Thank you!

 

[Jon A]

[ QUOTE ]
What scope is that drop chart for?
1/4 Mil clicks?
Number jumps @ 1K and 1500?

[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, somebody's paying attention. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif It's for this one:

IOR 2.5-10. I had been planning to pick one up for the little 7-08 for a while, I finally did and I liked it so much I decided to use it this year on the 300. (And on a side note, that's the type of weather I had in mind when I picked the stock colors! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

Anyway, it says the clicks are 1/2 MOA. 26 MOA (52 clicks) to a turn (which is why the drop chart resets at 1K and 1.5K). Well, I don't know if they accidentally stuck the Euro internals in mine or if they just figured 1/8 Mil is close enough to 1/2 MOA (.45" vs. .52" at 100 yds per click) but when measured they are most certainly 1/8 Mil clicks--exactly--making the numbers 1/4 Mils.

I was actually happy to discover this when measuring as I like the reticle to match the adjustments. Though, I'd prefer 1/10 Mil to 1/8 Mil as it makes the math easier. Anyway, that's the reason--I doubt most would have ever noticed such a small difference, but when shooting at extreme ranges those clicks add up.

The 50 yd increments. It's a compromise between how much space you've got/want to paste over with tables, how far out you want the tables to go, how quickly you'll be able to find what you need in the tables.... Such compromises need to be made unless you're spitting out a number from a PDA for every shot in the field.

The 50 yds increments got somewhat annoying in the past, especially at longer ranges where there were more clicks between numbers. I did try decreasing the step at farther ranges--say every 100 yds out to 300 or 400, every 50 yds for the next couple hundred, every 25 for a couple hundred after that, then every 10, etc. I think that's probably the way to go for a drop chart for the ease of use/least space compromise. Still takes up a lot of space though.

Since I've started sticking the drop chart info directly onto the turret (cough, which could be called a BDC, cough) I've pretty much forgotten about the problem as the chart is only there for wind and reference/backup for elevation.

The problem I had with 50 yd increments out there a ways was mathematically interpolating MOA numbers then rounding to the nearest click. I'm pretty fair at math and can do it in my head better/more quickly than most people, but let's just say doing the above for some random range wasn't the quickest thing in the world, nor what I'd want to have to do in the heat of the moment. Beyond slowing me down, I was prone to make errors. If using only drop charts I'd break them down farther.

But when the same info is on the turret, I find the 50 yd increment to be just fine. You're no longer having to do math in your head--it's all visual. You have X00 yds marked here, you have X50 yds marked there, you get an actual range from the rangefinder between them. You simply crank the turret to the appropriate place between the two. It's all visual, no thinking or math required--simply crank it to the right spot.

I've found, besides being much, much faster, and causing fewer headaches, I make far fewer mistakes this way.

Of course at really extreme ranges, a PDA output is going to look better and better the farther you go, or even a drop chart printed in 10 or even 5 yd increments if you have the space for them and can find the right line quickly.

But in my case, I wasn't planning on shooting a deer that far away yet. As you can see the BDC above gets me to 950 yds in a single turn and I have complete confidence in its "twist and kill" accuracy out to that range when tailered for the load and conditions. And if I want to plink at a rock or a coyote or something at 1500, I can easily use the dropchart to get in the ballpark.

I wouldn't recommend these methods to anybody expecting to take game at farther ranges where more precision is required but it suits me quite well at the moment.
[ QUOTE ]
A bonded 265g ULD RBBT? That is great news! Do you think a 1 in 10 will stabilize this? Please keep us informed as you work these up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, back to the subject. I don't know how a 1:10 will handle them. Only one way to find out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd suggest trying a few and if they shoot, great. If not, wait until he gets the shorter jackets or decide your barrel is shot out and have a 1:9 screwed on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'll let you know how they fly.