.250" Groups - Is it possible?

[B-RAD]

I have been building loads for my Custom AR-15 rifle for about 2 years on and off, below is a link to my load data spreadsheet.

LOAD DATA PDF <Link

Left Side Pic <Link
Right Side Pic<Link

Through alot of reading I find that most have a hard time getting .500" groups at 100yrds, that being said, it's very easy for me to get 1/2 MOA as seen by the spreadsheett (in pdf format for everyone)
So I'm looking for people who have personally gotten the .250" groups I'm looking for, and to share some secrets, load data, and parts.
Thanks, I hope there is someone out there getting these groups.

Reloading Equipment:
Bonanza (Forster) CO-AX
Redding Comp Dies
RCBS Powder thrower

My AR-15 Build:
DPMS Upper w/ 20" DPMS BBL
Double Star Lower
Les Baer Bolt Carrier group
Magpul PRS Stock w/ mono-pod
Tubbs Flatwire buffer spring
JP Trigger
JP Adjustable gas block
JP Float tube
JP expanding take down pin
Ergo Grip
Burris Black Diamond 8-32x50 on Burris tactical rings gun)

I'm looking at getting a nice billet lower, other than that, can anyone point me in the directions of any better parts..?

I think I named all the parts....

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Also to show you I can shoot here is some info on my baby... my Cooper .223

Cooper Load Data

Cooper Pic

 

[6.5fan]

Its been donegun)stag arms mod 6 varmiter 24in bull barrel bone stock accept for honing trigger shers.win brass 75gr hornady bthp over 23.5gr of varget, lit with cci 450, lenght 2.270. three shots measured .167 .gun is 2 weeks old just got it.ps i am a 1k benchrest shooter with a bad case of OCD. i can make anything shoot,if it dosen't shoot when i get done with it i can garrentee you its ether junk or there is somethinking realy wrong with it.I am still working up other loads at this time but this one may be a keeper.good luck in your .250 questgun)

 

[436]

I would agree; .250" inch (3) & (5) shot groups from AR platform has been and can be done... The real question should be; "can it be done consistently time after time". Other wise it's just another good group for that day on the range.
Good luck
436

 

[Boss Hoss]

Edited

 

[Ridge Runner]

3 shots from my RRA varminter at 102 yards, doesn't do it every time but often enough for me to call it a quarter inch gas gun, to work up this load I get the cabela's book and order ultra-max ammo loaded with 55 gr softpoints by the 1/2 case.
RR

 

[Greyfox]

I have shot several 5 shot quarter inch groups at 100 yards with two of my uppers. Every time ,no, but pretty consistent over the long haul. I use these for 200 and 300 yard egg shoots. They compete well with the bolt rifles.

I use the same lower for both of these uppers. Colt with a Rock River Match Trigger with a JP spring kit set at 3.5#. Everything else is stock except for lead weighted A2 stock. Have to make sure there is NO play between upper and lower. I like to use a modified red plastic wedge that's available from Brownels. I drill a 1/8 hole through the base and cut a S&W rebound coil spring 5 coils and stick it in the center. The plain plastic fatigues over time. The spring keeps it tight.

Upper one: DPMS 24" heavy stainless 223, 1:9 twist. Lapua brass, CCI BR primer, 25gr Varget, 69gr. Sierra BT Match bullet. FL RCBS X Dye. Nightforce NXS 8x22

Upper two: Whitely 6mmAR. 24" heavy Hart Barrel, DPMS heavy walled receiver. 1:8 twist. Lapua 6.5 Grendel necked necked down to 6mm, CCIBR primer, 28.2gr R-15. Sierra 107gr Match bullet. Custom Redding FL Dye and seated. 8x32 Nightforce Benchrest.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Actually, they'll do better than this pretty regularly, if the gun is set up properly and fed good ammo. I have a good friend, John Feamster, who shot an "Official Screamer" group in a registered Benchrest competition; that's five rounds in under .1", witnessed and verified by the match officals. ****ed off a bunch of the benchresters, too. John is one of the loading techs in AMU's Custom Ammo shop that Troy Lawton runs at Ft Benning, so he knows a thing or two about putting together accuate ammo for the AR platform.

The .250 mark is a pretty tight standard to work with, and requires good gear and proper prep all the way around, as well as some good shooting and decent conditions. AR's that will regularly do .5" and under are pretty common these days, and anything approaching .75" to 1 MOA would leave me evaluating and asking, "what's gone wrong with this gun?"

 

[BigSkyGP]

helped a friend a few years ago build his cheap ar, A4 style. bought a cheap kit from the black thorne site, I think he was out $450 including the receiver.

we feed it 36gr varmint grenades over 24.7 gr of X-terminator in what ever brass is prepped and what ever primers I throw in. Three times in as many years hes put three so tight! the whole group is close the size of the eraser of a No 2 pencil.

That's the load for that rifle, everything else is MOA.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Kevin----find me one that will shoot "SCREAMERS" and I will buy it!!!

 

[Forrest Ebert]

Check out Stiller Predator XT lower the best out there for an AR 15 build! Yes getting .250 groups is easy and with many different bullet weights and powder,primer case combos. Like one person said if you can do it 3-5 times in a row you have a load once could be just luck on that day!

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Boss Hoss,

Have to talk to Feamster about that one, but I don't think it's for sale. I think Bill Wylde did the build for him, but I'd have to check with John to be sure. As I recall, there was a picture of the group and his Official Screamer patch in John"s book on the ARs. I did much of the photo work in that book for him, and that was one of the set that I shot.

 

[Chris F]

When did Feamster give up his career in health care?

Bill Wylde built that rifle, and Bill himself shot his AR's in registered competition. In fact he scared the crowd enough times that one of the organizations put in rules prohibiting the AR. It's hard to get Bill to build rifles these days, and he's sending folks to John Holliger for AR work. There are a lot of folks with Holliger uppers that have shot 1/4" groups. Although John specializes in Service Rifle work with fast twist barrels, John will tell you the best chance to get there is to let him do a build with a slower twist barrel.

 

[DZelenka]

Chris,

You wouldn't happen to be going to Perry this year?

Dan

 

[DZelenka]

Boss Hoss,

Have to talk to Feamster about that one, but I don't think it's for sale. I think Bill Wylde did the build for him, but I'd have to check with John to be sure. As I recall, there was a picture of the group and his Official Screamer patch in John"s book on the ARs. I did much of the photo work in that book for him, and that was one of the set that I shot.

I second Kevin's suggestion to let Holliger build the upper.

I think that the AR system has the inherent accuracy (properly built and fed) to shoot those kind of groups. The problem is that ARs are not well suited to being shot off of a bench rest. Also, they have mediocre triggers and slow lock times compared to bolt guns.