25-06 failure to group

[Panadajack]

At my wits end with this one, figure I'd try to crowd source solutions.
I have a Rem 700 25-06 Long Range (1:10) that consistently throws fliers 1/4 shots. I pillar bedded the action, floated the forend, installed lighter trigger, tried a KRG chassis, loaded a variety of projectiles 100-120 gr ( have 83,87 on the way to try) nothing I have done has rid this set up of fliers. Trigger and chassis did bring in the groups, but fliers are still consistent at 1/4-1/5 shots.
Got the rifle used with less than 200 down the tube and since have shot another 200 trying to chase this issue in the last 8 months. Scope shows a good bore with minimal throat erosion, seating .015 off lands for most bullets a bit more jump for some others. Have adjusted seating with minimal impact as well.

 

[xsn10s]

I had that issue with a 22-250, but mine was getting burned out. I learned to live with it for 8 years shooting within it's capabilities for varmints. Then I tried a Berger 55 gr Match Flat base and it tightened the group. Some times a flat based bullets or one that requires less twist can make a difference.

 

[Bob Wright]

Among a bunch of options to try, I would mark those spent cartridges that are throwing a flyer, and inspect every dimension you possibly can. What, if anything, is different? If the majority of "flyer brass" have one thing in common you might find your answer.
You can also reload 5 of those suspect brass and see if they all spread groups as individual offenders.

 

[Panadajack]

Among a bunch of options to try, I would mark those spent cartridges that are throwing a flyer, and inspect every dimension you possibly can. What, if anything, is different? If the majority of "flyer brass" have one thing in common you might find your answer.
You can also reload 5 of those suspect brass and see if they all spread groups as individual offenders.

Good call. Have them sorted by size differential weight and brand. Though unfortunately still remains. When I reloaded the brass that threw fliers still about the same 1/4,1/5 and when mixed in with non flier reloads it wasn't always the same piece of brass that threw the flier

 

[Panadajack]

I had that issue with a 22-250, but mine was getting burned out. I learned to live with it for 8 years shooting within it's capabilities for varmints. Then I tried a Berger 55 gr Match Flat base and it tightened the group. Some times a flat based bullets or one that requires less twist can make a difference.

Had the same thought and ran some 100gr speer hotcors through it with the same results. Have some 87's coming in tonight I will try.

 

[Bob Wright]

Good call. Have them sorted by size differential weight and brand. Though unfortunately still remains. When I reloaded the brass that threw fliers still about the same 1/4,1/5 and when mixed in with non flier reloads it wasn't always the same piece of brass that threw the flier

That eliminates brass. Bullet switches might work. You might also look at primers.
As an aside, one of my rifles is hyper sensitive to neck tension and donuts forming. I'm considering throating deeper to get the bullet away from the donut permanently.
So with that in mind, how repeatable is feel when seating and how are you controlling neck tension, (mandrel, bushing or full length sizing and button)???

 

[stonehands1]

Define flyer please as we all my have different definition.
What number in the sequence is it?
Always same or different with each grouping?
My first go to for fixing total random no pattern flyers is neck tension/neck prep.
In my experience its always in the brass.
I sorted 100 pieces of brass by tracking velocity, poi. Yes it was a silly rabbit hole but very informative.
I found that in the case of the crappy proprietary over priced brass no matter how well I prepped it and how perfect my reloading techniques were some pieces of brass would repeatedly change firing to firing and others would give consistent repeatable results.
End result was a 3/4" rifle becoming a 1/4" rifle with 5shot es less than 5.

 

[Panadajack]

That eliminates brass. Bullet switches might work. You might also look at primers.
As an aside, one of my rifles is hyper sensitive to neck tension and donuts forming. I'm considering throating deeper to get the bullet away from the donut permanently.
So with that in mind, how repeatable is feel when seating and how are you controlling neck tension, (mandrel, bushing or full length sizing and button)?

Bushing dies. Using fed match primers, with the Frankford Arsenal primer seater; does a **** good job with uniformity. Consistent feel with the seating as I recall but will pay closer attention this evening loading the 87's

 

[Panadajack]

Define flyer please as we all my have different definition.
What number in the sequence is it?
Always same or different with each grouping?
My first go to for fixing total random no pattern flyers is neck tension/neck prep.
In my experience its always in the brass.
I sorted 100 pieces of brass by tracking velocity, poi. Yes it was a silly rabbit hole but very informative.
I found that in the case of the crappy proprietary over priced brass no matter how well I prepped it and how perfect my reloading techniques were some pieces of brass would repeatedly change firing to firing and others would give consistent repeatable results.
End result was a 3/4" rifle becoming a 1/4" rifle with 5shot es less than

Never first 2 but sporadic from there. Flier will be a good 2" high and right of group. Not consistent placement of the flier but consistent distance. Consistent neck tension with the bushing dies and turned brass on those out of allowance for OD and wall thickness. Having reloaded the brass multiple times I am not seeing any consistency on which pieces throw fliers and have them marked for throwing most of which have thrown at least once at this point.

 

[stonehands1]

Bushing dies. Using fed match primers, with the Frankford Arsenal primer seater; does a **** good job with uniformity. Consistent feel with the seating as I recall but will pay closer attention this evening loading the 87's

I found best results Br2s and WMGLR primers.

 

[Bob Wright]

Bushing dies. Using fed match primers, with the Frankford Arsenal primer seater; does a **** good job with uniformity. Consistent feel with the seating as I recall but will pay closer attention this evening loading the 87's

I'm heading to a mandrel setup. I have to neck turn for both rifles as the chamber reamers used were "match" and cannot load quality new brass without turning to guarantee clearance (.004).
I'm noticing the seating is a bit uneven, and somewhat sticky as I only bushing size them. I'm willing to bet the price of the mandrel die, will fix that. It's a rabbit hole to pursue.

 

[stonehands1]

Never first 2 but sporadic from there. Flier will be a good 2" high and right of group. Not consistent placement of the flier but consistent distance. Consistent neck tension with the bushing dies and turned brass on those out of allowance for OD and wall thickness. Having reloaded the brass multiple times I am not seeing any consistency on which pieces throw fliers and have them marked for throwing most of which have thrown at least once at this point.

2 inch is a lot. Probably not brass problem.
Shoot only a 2 shot group each day for a few days until you get a flyer...if you even do get one.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Do you lube your necks with a dry lube like powdered graphite or mica?
If not, try it with a little more neck tension than what you are doing now, say .0005"-.001" more tension.
See how you go.
Do you anneal your necks?

Cheers.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I beat my head against the wall with a rifle doing something similar with a factory barrel. The expensive lesson learned was no matter how many components I wasted the rifle just wouldn't shoot any better. Got rid of the barrel and now it is a half inch gun with hand loads.