.25-06 & .57wtby

[Lefty7mmstw]

Crap, 3400 isn't THAT high for a 25 -06 with a 26" pipe using 115's if the powder is correct; most books are 22-24" barrels with that round. I've seen 3100-3200fps with my 25 wssm with speer 120's, but settled on a start load of 4350 at 2900 fps. Incidently, that start load is only supposed to do about 2750 fps. My 25 wssm is a 24" coyote. Some barrels are just a bit fast, and vice versa.
With a 22" 25-06 you will have a time breaking 3300 fps with a 100 though at normal pressures.

 

[jsthntn247]

72.5 gr of re 22 yields 3800 from a 100 ttsx. The .06 can't touch that

 

[lloydsmale]

heres what quick load says about the pressure need to do this in a 25-06 with a 115 bt in a 26 inch barrel using re17. NOT IN MY GUN!

A 94% case capacity load of 54.5 gr. of Reloader-17 calculates to 3,400 f.p.s. with an estimated peak pressure of 79,290 p.s.i.

A 84% case capacity load of 48.9.0 gr. of Reloader-17 calculates to 3,117 f.p.s. with an estimated nominal recommended maximum pressure of 56,971 p.s.i.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Hotter pressure than I figured; I'd figured high 60's. Too dang hot then...... blow your face off pressures, even if he has a "fast barrel" on his 25-06.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

heres what quick load says about the pressure need to do this in a 25-06 with a 115 bt in a 26 inch barrel using re17. NOT IN MY GUN!

A 94% case capacity load of 54.5 gr. of Reloader-17 calculates to 3,400 f.p.s. with an estimated peak pressure of 79,290 p.s.i.

A 84% case capacity load of 48.9.0 gr. of Reloader-17 calculates to 3,117 f.p.s. with an estimated nominal recommended maximum pressure of 56,971 p.s.i.

Actually, my load is 55 gr, I went as far as 55.5 with a slightly sticky bolt and backed off a 1/2 gr. I am getting slightly flattened primers and no other pressure signs. Also tested 110 AB's and got 3500 fps with them with 55.5 gr. The 115 BST's were a little more accurate so I went with them.

Hotter pressure than I figured; I'd figured high 60's. Too dang hot then...... blow your face off pressures, even if he has a "fast barrel" on his 25-06.

Hey fella's, we're all big boys. These forums are about sharing info and I've learened a lot here and shared a little of my experience as well. You are free to take it or leave it. I am an experienced reloader. I know what max and over max loads are - been there done that. I posted my 25-06/RL 17 results a couple of years ago and of course there were some skeptics, but there were a few who went out and worked up some loads themselves with excellent results and thanked me for my info.

Cheers and good shooting,

Mark

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Actually, my load is 55 gr, I went as far as 55.5 with a slightly sticky bolt and backed off a 1/2 gr. I am getting slightly flattened primers and no other pressure signs. Also tested 110 AB's and got 3500 fps with them with 55.5 gr. The 115 BST's were a little more accurate so I went with them.



Hey fella's, we're all big boys. These forums are about sharing info and I've learened a lot here and shared a little of my experience as well. You are free to take it or leave it. I am an experienced reloader. I know what max and over max loads are - been there done that. I posted my 25-06/RL 17 results a couple of years ago and of course there were some skeptics, but there were a few who went out and worked up some loads themselves with excellent results and thanked me for my info.

Cheers and good shooting,

Mark

I would still be a bit concerned. I had a pressure gauge on my last 7stw and the bolt lift wasn't bad at 75K psi. It took more than that to make it stiff. You've got a longer barrel on your 25-06, so another 100 fps may be in order without issues, but you are over 200 fps hot. Over 65Kpsi just beats everything up to much to stay there.

As far as sharing info and we're all big boys, lloyd and I seem to care more about your well being than you do. I'm just stating what I've seen and lloyd is giving you the info he has. Take it or leave it; it's your choice as you've said.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I would still be a bit concerned. I had a pressure gauge on my last 7stw and the bolt lift wasn't bad at 75K psi. It took more than that to make it stiff. You've got a longer barrel on your 25-06, so another 100 fps may be in order without issues, but you are over 200 fps hot. Over 65Kpsi just beats everything up to much to stay there.

As far as sharing info and we're all big boys, lloyd and I seem to care more about your well being than you do. I'm just stating what I've seen and lloyd is giving you the info he has. Take it or leave it; it's your choice as you've said.

I appreciate your concern but I am VERY comfortable with this load in this rifle. Let's consider some facts about reloading. There are many factors that affect pressure and velocity, including brass, primers, chamber, bore spec, powder, bullets, etc. Certain combinations will give you higher velocity to pressure ratios. I.e., in my 25-06 I found about 50 fps difference in using WW brass vs Rem for equivalent pressure signs. Like a lot of other reloaders, I don't have a pressure gauge and I go by what I see and feel.

I have seen some big differences in max loads and velocities in different reloading manuals for the very same cartridge, bullet and powder combinations. I have had several shooters in this forum message me for load details and I always encourage them to start low and work up carefully.

I have shot many rounds of this load out of this rifle without what I consider to be excessive pressure signs.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

FWIW, back when I was working up this load I also worked up a load using Retumbo which, at the time, the online Nosler Reloading guide listed pushing the 115 BST @ 3200 fps. That was the fastest published load I saw so I tried it. I started running in to higher pressure signs just a little above that same velocity with that powder and determined the safe working max for me was about 3200 fps - same as published. I used the same visible signs that I used for my RL 17 load.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

FWIW, back when I was working up this load I also worked up a load using Retumbo which, at the time, the online Nosler Reloading guide listed pushing the 115 BST @ 3200 fps. That was the fastest published load I saw so I tried it. I started running in to higher pressure signs just a little above that same velocity with that powder and determined the safe working max for me was about 3200 fps - same as published. I used the same visible signs that I used for my RL 17 load.

Fair enough; it seems you may have lucked into a rather high efficiency combo for your weapon. I have one in my 300 win with a 165 at 3300 fps in warm weather at 1-2 grains under what should be top load for 3200 fps with 165's, rl22, and a 215. Same in my 338 with 225 hornady bullets and rl19; over 100 fps fast with the given combo. I do like to look at average velocity for a combo and use it as a rough speed limit for the round though, since if you are over by more than a few percent there is a pressure issue there.

 

[lloydsmale]

no use getting in a ****ing match here. I stated what a said for one reason only. There are beginning handloaders here that use forums like this to get advice. Giving ANY advice that recomends a load hotter then recomended by a powder manufacture can be dangerous. Flattened primers ARE a sign of excessive pressure. The same load that flattens primers in 40 degree weather can possible blow a gun up in hot weather. when your running on the ragged edge like that a differnt lot of powder or primers can cause a disasterous result Every gun is differnt and the next guy that comes along can load the same load and blow a differnt gun up. Im not going to sit here and say i didnt do it at one time or another either but id never recomend a load like that to somone else. Id hate to be resposnible for someone loosing his sight! Like i said i did it in my younger days but found that an extra 100 fps doesnt buy much if anything in killing deer. Im also fortunute in have quite a few guns and if i want 257 veclocitys in the field i dont grab a 2506 and overload it i grab a 257. If anything anymore i go the opposite route and download guns. My 44 mags or my linebaoughs are rarely shot at top velocitys. Either are my bolt guns. Like i said i dont see any advantage to the practice and i like my guns and my eyes. I dont think anyone here is telling you what to do. If your confortable with it go for it but just keep in mind that new guys read these posts and many will think if 66 grains is safe maybe 56 is too or if its good in your gun its good in mine. Its nice when guys share there experiences.

I allways cringe at posts that guys will claim a 25-06 is everything a 257 wby is or a 280 is everything a 7mag is or an 06 is just as powerful as a 300 win mag. It just isnt at least not with safe loads. Believe me aliant makes re17 and advertises it as a powder that gives a few fps better velocity in some rounds. IF it could make a 2506 into a 257 safely theyd be the first to print data that did it. It would sure help with there powder sales. But it doesnt and never will. So i anytmore stick to what the technitions with there pressure guages telll me. Even a vetran loader like me gets ideas on loads to try off the internet. But we should try to keep it safe and keep in mind that not everyone has loaded and shot 10s of thousands of rounds and has the experience level in handloading to push the envelope over whats saftely recomended and truth be told most who do have outgrown that need for speed anyway and know it buys about nothing.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

And like I said, we are all big boys. When I first started reloading I bought 3 manuals and read them through with special interest in safety and what to do and not to do. I also quizzed a few of my friends who were experienced hand loaders. I understood the potential I was dealing with. The first thing anyone who decides to start hand loading should do is to understand the safety issues. If they don't, that's their problem, not mine. There's guys that have posted some loads and velocities on this forum that would make your eyes water and I chased a couple of them... but when I saw the pressure signs with my combo, I stopped.

Hand loading 101 - Do not start at max. When working up a load start at a low charge and work up in increments. If you see signs of excessive pressure, stop! Go back until you see no signs.

Anyone who hand loads and doesn't understand that is an accident waiting to happen. And that's their problem, not mine.

 

[lloydsmale]

Like you said your a big boy and can do what you want. I guess i worry to much about the little things. The bad rap all handloaders would get if i blow up my gun and die or go blind. Many in this country would love to take our hobby away. I also worry that if i got killed today in a car wreck and my guns and reloading gear were given out to others would maybe someone stick my ammo in a differnt gun. One that wouldnt take those pressures. What about the guy that isnt as safe as you and decides if you can do it so can he? Nobody can tell you what to do here or for that matter wants to. What you do in the privacy of your own loading room is your bussiness. What you post on the internet is your bussiness. Me, I dont post ANY load on the internet anymore that isnt covered in at least one loading manual. I dont want to be responsible for someone else being mamed. I not only dont want to live with that guilt but dont want to loose my home when the lawyers come a knocking. Take a chill pill though. Nobody is calling you dumb, nobody is telling you what to do with YOUR gun. I did nothing but give MY opinion on it to possibly keep someone else from getting hurt. take it or leave it. Im not the most experienced rilfe loader here. Ive been reloading for about 40 years. Most of that has been for handguns of some sort. Ive loaded many thousand rounds of rifle ammo but im not one that really knows the intricacys of long range rifles and what it takes to put one together. I dont have quick load i had a freind on another fourm run your load. Like i said in another post what i have learned about rifle loading and hunting over the years is that extra 100 fps gives you about nothing and to ME anyway is silly to try to extract at the cost of even the slightest chance of an injury or damaged gun.