Ya they're staying together from a 10 twist ok. I am about to try some H4831 and RL26 to see if itll be anymore consistent than RL22. Cant quite seem to get a load dialed in with it 150 rounds later. Having trouble finding the lands in the rifle. I come up with different measurements everytime. Dont know why this rifle is giving me so much trouble. Anyone else have a vanguard and see what the COAL is at the lands with a 87g VMAX? I have plenty of mag space to reach the lands. I've tried everything from 3.265" all the way down to 3.060" and everything in between. 3.190" with 56g RL22 at 3500-3525 was shooting decent for awhile, now all of a sudden the velocity is 75-100fps faster, leaving ejector Mark's, and accuracy went to ****. I usually load .010" off to start with in all my other rifles loads and usually do pretty well there. The method I've always used is the old school way of taking a fired case, pushing the neck in, stick the bullet in the case to where it holds, color the bullet with a black sharp and then chamber the round. The lands usually push the bullet back into the case to where you can see where you're at the lands, based off the scraping of the sharply. I cant get a consistent number with this **** thing. First go round was 3.265", next go round was 3.235", then 3.2" starting to get a little frustrated with it honestly. Seating them to Roy's spec at 3.060" shot about 1 MOA if I remember right. By the time I figure out this load for the rifle, the **** barrel will be 3/4 of the way shot out...