200 ELD-X 300 WSM RL-26 ladder test

Engineering101

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Got to the range today to shoot. The attached pic shows the results of the upper part of the 300 WSM ladder test, three 3-shot groups from at 200 yards. ES was decent but not great. Nice that the last two powder increments resulted in groups that were kind of on top of each other. Primers were pretty flat but no sticky bolt yet so I might try to cram a bit more powder in the case on the chance that groups tighten. It would be sweet to find a node at the top of the powder range.
 

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Is that not the OCW method ? When I do a ladder I shoot the different charges on the same target and at 600 yards so the spread is much clearer. Also with that charge weight I would drop down to 0.4 grain increments.
 
Wedgy

You know I hadn't thought of testing at 600 yards but I could. I'd be concerned that wind would effect the results at that range. Vertical is more important though and that would definitely show up at 600 yards. I might give that a try. Thanks.
 
I shoot 5 or 6 at the same target and color the tips different with a sharpie marker to correspond with the charge. A red sharpie leaves a red ring on the hole in the paper target.
Here's the best demo I've seen.
Ladder Testing | Shooters' Forum
I've been asked to start a thread describing Ladder Testing. The fallowing is my own description, recommendations, and example of Ladder Testing:

Ladder Testing is the loading and firing incrementally up a charge ladder, firing 1-round of each increment at the same Aim Point. Assessment and discovery are then made from the vertical dispersion between the increments in relationship to each other.

Ladder Testing is not exquisite to charge increments only, and many use the method for other developmental aspects such as conducting: Seating ladders, Neck-tension ladders, and other load development aspects incrementally, with the assessment and discovery solely based on vertical dispersion between the increments as well.

The running of 2 ladders back to back round robin style is another popular way of conducting ladder tests, for further confirmation and proof.
Some even run more then 2 ladders back to back, in shortened versions, for fine tuning. Which is a very popular method for several 1000yd Benchrest shooter's that I know.

Below is a 15-shot Ladder Test conducted at 450yds from a Browning X-Bolt 270-WSM with 130-BT Nosler/RL19/CCI-250/Win brass. Below it is the velocity and vertical measurement data from the test and a "classroom" type description of how I assess and conduct Ladder Tests:

sh1.png



ShData2.png








Below is the ladder target drawn to scale onto a chalkboard representation:
sh2.png



Below is node assessments determined by the relativity in vertical dispersion:
sh3.png



Below is chalkboard representation of the increments in a vertical line:
sh4.png



Below again, is node assessments of the vertical line representation:
sh5.png



Below is the procedure steps I make to conduct my ladder tests:
sh7.png



Below is the "Plot Sheet" made when running the ladder test:
sh8.png



Other recommendations and suggestions:


  • Hang the target to be used for Ladder Tests as level and square as possible.
  • Plot the POI placements to each bullet hole to its referring Ladder number.
  • Starting with the lowest charge, working up the increment ladder in succession.
  • Allow appropriate time between shots, to plot each shot, record the velocity, assess pressure.
  • Fire all increments at a common barrel temperature baseline.
  • All shots to be fired at one same Aiming Point on the target.

  • Recommend 300yds minimum for conducting Ladder Test.
  • An "infrared heat gun" is what I use to monitor my barrel temperature.
  • White poster board or minimal marked target paper, work best for spotting at distance.
  • Camera set to record, colored bullet ogive's, reactive target board, target cam systems, etc. all work good for alternatives besides optic and optical spotting/plotting.
  • Wind drift has little effect to the assessment outcomes to ladder testing, since vertical dispersion is the sole discovery aspect. Reference all assessments by vertical dispersion only.
Utilize the barrel cooling time between each shot to record, assess, and return the rifle to the same POA and battery position. Do not load the next round until your ready to fire it, to prevent the round from being heated in the chamber (oven effect).

Of the advantages to a Ladder Test, the efficiency in discovery of Maximum Pressure for the cartridge and chambered barrel. Some ways to assess for Pressure Signs are:
<> Amount of extraction force needed when lifting the bolt handle to extract the cartridge.
<> Reading of the primer, for "flatness", "cratering", and for leakage around the primer.
<> Visual assessment of the case head for "brass swiping" and scratches from extraction.
<> Visual assessment of the case head for brass flow and markings of an extraction plunger.
<> Measurements for the amounts of case stretch
<> Abrupt increase to the amount of recoil felt.
<> Assessment of the chronograph data.
Once we have identified a maximum pressure point, we then stop the ladder test at that point, for safety and risks of continuing any higher. And the charge level being identified as our "found maximum".

Load and test safe.....
Donovan Moran

Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
 
Wedgy

Looks like I've gotten sloppy in my use of terminology. Thanks for the education on ladder testing. I'm just shooting to identify a node where the groups tighten up. If the rifle will repeat the group a time or two I figure it is good enough to hunt with. I don't fancy myself as a true long range hunter as I try to get as close as I can before I pull the trigger. There are places I hunt where that might be 600 yards but usually it is a third of that so a rifle that will shoot 0.65 MOA (like the group at the top of the target) is plenty good enough.
 
Any update? I'm wanting to run a ladder on my 300 WSM Model 70 with the 200 ELD-X and RL-26. From the limited research I can find, velocity should rival my 7mm WSM with 175 grain bullets and a similar BC. Sounds promising!
 
I just worked this combo a little over the last two days and found a node quickly using ocw. My load ended up at 68.7 grains of rl26 in Norma brass primed with a 210M and a 200 ELD-X seated .020" off. I still need to shoot it over a magneto speed for velocity, but it stacked five shots into .3 MOA on a validation test.
My rifle is a 26" Pac Nor barreled Win 70.
 
My rifle ended up liking 68.6 grains and the 200 eld-x in a 24" barrel at 2930. I've since moved in to 215 Bergers at 2830.
 
Another update with some temp data. I took 10 rounds to the range today to get velocity data from 68.7 grains of RL26 with the 200 ELD-X seated at .020" off. The temp outside was 17*F. For the test, I let five rounds of ammo soak in the cold for 25 minutes while traveling to the range and an additional 30 minutes to let the rifle soak alongside the first five rounds prior to firing them across the Magneto speed. The first 5 rounds soaked nearly an hour and the rifle soaked for 30 minutes at 17*F. The other five rounds were stored indoors at 70*F until they were fired through the rifle.

My 17* F speeds were:
1. 3009
2. 3010
3. 3007
4. 3013
5. 3011
AVG 3010 fps

For the warm rounds, I moved the rifle indoors to soak for 30 minutes at 70*F prior to firing the warm rounds.

The warm speeds were:
1. 3017
2. 3019
3. 3013
4. 3020
5. 3015
AVG 3017 fps

Needless to say, I'm pleased with what I'm seeing with RL26. A 7 fps swing over a 53* temp change producing 3000+ fps with a 200 grain bullet in the WSM case with RL26 exceeded all expectations.

I'll test it in the negative temps in the near future for additional data.
 
Since my last results I opened a new 8lb jug of RL26 and it needed .6 grains more to match the velocity and one hole accuracy previously achieved. I'm now running 69.3 grains to average 3017 fps with the new lot of powder.
 
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Did you try the 212 ELD-X?

Nope. The shape of the 212 isn't as seating depth friendly in a short action 300 WSM due to its longer nose. The 200 is .020" off the lands seated at 2.960" which is about perfect for my setup.
 
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