I think we might be long lost brothers! I only learn one way, and that's the hard way.
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2 years in...what I've learned.
- Thread starter StumpyJohnson
- Start date
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When a rifle "won't shoot" after a few prospective loads, say 1-2 projectiles, 1-2 powders with a 2-3gn spread in .5gn increments, it's time to pull the stock, scope, mounts, and start looking for mechanical maladies.
Things touching things they're not supposed to touch.
Scope-base screws on bbl tenon,
action screws bottoming out on the action before they tighten the action to the stock, or touching the stock somewhere in the hole
The bbl making contact w/the stock where it shouldn't to include flexing/vibrating contact during recoil
bbl'd action teeter-tottering on the recoil-lug and/or magazine, bottom-metal teeter-tottering on a high spot in the inlet.
Scope-rings with enough misalignment to torque the scope
The scope making contact w/the bbl.
Sling-swivel studs dragging on front or rear bags during recoil
Then the scope itself.
Get the mechanics right and you'll find a lot more of those "unicorn" rifles that seem to shoot everything well. Get them wrong and you can tinker until the world runs out of components.
Things touching things they're not supposed to touch.
Scope-base screws on bbl tenon,
action screws bottoming out on the action before they tighten the action to the stock, or touching the stock somewhere in the hole
The bbl making contact w/the stock where it shouldn't to include flexing/vibrating contact during recoil
bbl'd action teeter-tottering on the recoil-lug and/or magazine, bottom-metal teeter-tottering on a high spot in the inlet.
Scope-rings with enough misalignment to torque the scope
The scope making contact w/the bbl.
Sling-swivel studs dragging on front or rear bags during recoil
Then the scope itself.
Get the mechanics right and you'll find a lot more of those "unicorn" rifles that seem to shoot everything well. Get them wrong and you can tinker until the world runs out of components.
WYO300RUM
Well-Known Member
Stumpy,
I agree with about everything in your first post.
I had an awaking last year. A 300 win mag load. Everything the same except case. One Norma and other ADG. The ADG load was half the size group. No joke. I've had same thing happen with different primers but not as dramatic. I did a test a couple years ago with a 6.5 PRC. Same load but one with Fed 210M and other with CCI BR200. The SD and ES was way lower with the Fed 210M. The group size wasn't much different. Seating depth is the last thing I mess with. I'm just a hunter. If my groups are half in. at 100 yds. I'm happy but most likely will try to better. Have funny story with a 3 shot one hole group with a 300 WM recently but this post is too long already.
I agree with about everything in your first post.
I had an awaking last year. A 300 win mag load. Everything the same except case. One Norma and other ADG. The ADG load was half the size group. No joke. I've had same thing happen with different primers but not as dramatic. I did a test a couple years ago with a 6.5 PRC. Same load but one with Fed 210M and other with CCI BR200. The SD and ES was way lower with the Fed 210M. The group size wasn't much different. Seating depth is the last thing I mess with. I'm just a hunter. If my groups are half in. at 100 yds. I'm happy but most likely will try to better. Have funny story with a 3 shot one hole group with a 300 WM recently but this post is too long already.
Clem Bronkoski
Well-Known Member
Man I love this thread. Informative and funny. It took me about 6 months until I got a load I was happy with in my Bergara. Everything shot well but I wasn't satisfied until I got it shooting exceptional.
As for certain loads....I used to hunt with a 270 Win exclusively and my Rem 700 shot several 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. My load was 54 gr of IMR4350 with a CCI200 primer and 130 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Every 270 that load was shot out of shot fantastic (at least 4 as I recall). Like you said, it was a magical combination of bullet and powder.
As for certain loads....I used to hunt with a 270 Win exclusively and my Rem 700 shot several 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups. My load was 54 gr of IMR4350 with a CCI200 primer and 130 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Every 270 that load was shot out of shot fantastic (at least 4 as I recall). Like you said, it was a magical combination of bullet and powder.
StumpyJohnson
Well-Known Member
Funny that this thread still garners attention. I'm actually taking a friend into the world of Long range hunting/shooting, the value of reloading, and the time required to attain competency. I'm not saying I'm a pro but if I can shorten the path to confident shooting and a solid addiction.
It reminds me of the things I take for granted now as common knowledge, which isn't so common.
I realized now that I had that same mentor, it was this forum and all of you. Granted most of you are total hacks, and your information has been a perfect example of what not to do.
I hope you're all hearing the total joking tone of my voice.
Rather than be a sentimental fruit I have to make fun of the fact that I truly appreciate the knowledge gained here, cause I'm a real man damnit.
I'll be pm'ing you all a thank you card, and a bill for the financial ruin this sport/hobby/lifestyle/sickness has inflicted on me.
Gotta go, my kids have nearly panhandled enough for a grayboe Phoenix 2.
It reminds me of the things I take for granted now as common knowledge, which isn't so common.
I realized now that I had that same mentor, it was this forum and all of you. Granted most of you are total hacks, and your information has been a perfect example of what not to do.
I hope you're all hearing the total joking tone of my voice.
Rather than be a sentimental fruit I have to make fun of the fact that I truly appreciate the knowledge gained here, cause I'm a real man damnit.
I'll be pm'ing you all a thank you card, and a bill for the financial ruin this sport/hobby/lifestyle/sickness has inflicted on me.
Gotta go, my kids have nearly panhandled enough for a grayboe Phoenix 2.
You save money after being on this forum???
Man I'm doing something wrong this forum always has me needing things i wasn't even aware of
My load development group sizes begins with 3 shot. Anything of interest gets 3 shot groups reloaded with smaller powder increments or varying seating depths, never both. Repeat until the best 2 or 3 loads show up. If one/two of those are good enough for that rifle purpose/setup I load 5 shot groups. The best of those gets 10 shots. If the 10 shot group is not good (given good technique and conditions), back to one of the others that showed promise somewhere along the way.
I "think" that I am using less components and conserving barrel life in that process. For lighter contour barrels, 10 shot groups take a considerable time to shoot and not overheat that barrel. I already generally take 3 or 4 rifles/loads to the range. One purpose for that is to allow time for the barrel to cool/rate of fire slow enough to stay busy and maximize my time there.
Cool thread!!! Thanks for posting.
I "think" that I am using less components and conserving barrel life in that process. For lighter contour barrels, 10 shot groups take a considerable time to shoot and not overheat that barrel. I already generally take 3 or 4 rifles/loads to the range. One purpose for that is to allow time for the barrel to cool/rate of fire slow enough to stay busy and maximize my time there.
Cool thread!!! Thanks for posting.
StumpyJohnson
Well-Known Member
So my new method (as of about 1.5 years ago) is load 10 rounds of 3 to 4 different bullet powder combos. Shoot each ten round bunch round robin using a 2 to 3 minute timer on my phone.
The last 3 out of 4 times I've done it, I've narrowed my search in about 40 rounds to a combination that really only needs to be tuned for velocity. I hate to parrot a controversial podcast...
BUT...
I'm finding seating depth and powder charge don't matter all that much. Maybe I'm not exploring all the variables. But I typically get to 10 shots at 1 moa in under 50 rounds.
When I first started, I would be doing ocw,ladder, seating ladders and all kinds crap...250 rounds in I was still shooting the random 3 inch group...
The downfall is that I have bullets and powders stacked up like cordwood.
Anyone need 9 lbs of us869? How about some 50 bmg? :|
Clem Bronkoski
Well-Known Member
It might have been here or another forum but a gentleman said he shotvat least 6 shot for a group and eliminated any flyers. Makes sense. I know several times over my 55+ years of shooting that flyers are a real thing. There have been many times where I knew positively I was dead on at the shot only to see the impact out of an otherwise good group.
Even when I shot small bore competitively with top shelf ammo you'd get a flyer.
Even when I shot small bore competitively with top shelf ammo you'd get a flyer.
