2 TX Deer with SGK's

[Guest]

2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

I took 2 Whitetail Bucks this weekend using my latest build of a Montana .264 Win Mag with a 28" heavy barrel 1-9 twist. I was testing 140 gr. Sierra GameKings behind 53.5 gr. of H4831. The Deer were taken at 250 yds and 420 yds. Both Deer were dead within 60 seconds, but I guess I'm used to instant kills; with other bullets I've used in the past. I was somewhat impressed by the accuracy in field conditions, but noticed that the exit wounds were fairly small; indicating very little expansion. Rating this bullet for hunting on a 1-10 scale, I'd give the SGK a (7), while rating the less expensive Remington Corelokts a (9). Still looking forward to testing the Barnes XLC's and Nosler Partitions on Deer and Hogs, and will report back when I have done so. Good Shootin'

 

[budlight]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

The non instant kills is what made me decide to go for neck and head shots.

Years ago I was already for the 400 yard shots with my .270 AI using 140 Sierra SPBT loaded to @3300. Of course after hard hunting all day long I'm driving off the mountian. When a whole herd wonders down on the road in front of me.

Well at 50 or so yards perfect broadside "Boom" fine blood spray fanned out all over the snow covered sage brush. 20 - 30 tracks heading in all directions and I had to find blood drops to track, that buck ran nearly a 1/2 mile straight of down the hill. It finally bled out. Exit wound was only the size of .25 cent piece. Mouth and noose full of blood from both lungs and back side of the heart torn.

The problem is the little .277 hole. It didn't impart any energy on the animal it went threw so fast. The hole was only quarter size because it hit a rib on exit.

I just don't believe that lung shots are good unless your doing long shots and you require a bigger kill zone.

 

[IdahoWoodsbummer]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

I shot my buck this year a 518 yards (leica 1200 rangefinder). I used my cheap Savage heavy bbl 308 with a 175 gr MK and 45 grs W748. One shot directly behind both shoulders, through both lungs. He ran downhill about 30 yards and piled up dead. The exit hole was also about the size of a quarter with a rib broken. Overall not great bullet performance, but not bad either. The deer was dead before he knew it.

Last years deer was shot behind the ear at 398 yards. He instantly flopped over and stuck all his legs in the air. I was using the same load and same cheap rifle.

I don't have too big of a problem with MKs for hunting if the person is an experienced long range hunter. True there are better choices in bullet performance but without the accuracy to put the bullet where it needs to go, the rest is just ****ing in the wind.
Besides, I practice year round with this rifle and load so I know Exactly where it will likely hit.

 

[Guest]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Guys,
Thanks for your input! Good Shootin'

 

[Charles A]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Dont mean to be a dick, however there is alot of hyperbole about terminal ballistics in those posts.

 

[Guest]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Hi Charles,
OK, I'll bite the bait. What exactly do you perceive to be exaggerated in our posts? Not that it's going to change the World, nor had I planned to enter any of this in some contest...but are we on the long distance hunting board or the E.B. Browning grammatical structure board? Maybe you just had a bad day??? We're not laughing at ya. We're laughing near ya! Seriously though, I would appreciate any comments regarding long distance hunting, as I am somewhat new to this sport, and have gleaned some very sharp insights from the pros on this site. Hope you have a great day, and Good Shootin Bro!

 

[Charles A]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Nighthunter not trying to be a jerk as I stated before, however I have a pretty good amount of knowledge in the particular area, and alot of times what people see, how they explain it, and what really caused it are different things.

[Quoted by Nighthunter]"but noticed that the exit wounds were fairly small; indicating very little expansion."[end qoute]


Now that could be true, and you did not specify what the damage was to the internal organs, however when I read/hear something like that it makes me cringe. Most of the time it happens just like your post, little exit hole, so assume little expansion. Take that same shot with a fragmenting(ie. SGK) type of bullet. By the time its exited, only the base may be left, leaving a small exit hole, even though the bullet created massive damage to the internal tissue.

No big deal, but when someone that does not know better it becomes gun shop "fact", and before you know it Matchkings don't kill deer.

[Quoted by Budlight] "It didn't impart any energy on the animal it went threw so fast."[end qoute]

Ok this ones asinine. "Energy" persay does not kill, tissue disruption does. How "fast" a bullet goes through an object has little effect outside of hydrostatic shock, temerary strech cavity, and what effect the speed has on the bullet causing it to deform in some way. The more velocity an expanding bullet has when it strikes a target, the MORE disruption it will cause.


[Qouted by Budlight]"I just don't believe that lung shots are good unless your doing long shots and you require a bigger kill zone."[end qoute]


Ok real question here as to the rational behind that.


Nighthunter, I should have asked you why you came to those conclusions first.

Ps., I like your screen qoute.

 

[budlight]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Charles Arbuckle - Your right I didn't word that very well. High speed small bullets that can go though 1/2 inch of mild steel at 200 yards are not really suited for broadside lung shots on sub 250 lbs thin skinned game. It just passes though without much damage at all. Without hitting heavy tissue and bone to absorb the energy and cause the animal to get knocked down. Like getting hit with a baseball bat. I've hunted in Shotgun only deer. 12 gauge slugs might go 1300 fps and they really don't cause much meat damage, but all the energy of the one OZ + slug getting stopped in 6 inches just cold cocks deer. I think that the massive hit just shuts down their nervous system.

[Qouted by Budlight]"I just don't believe that lung shots are good unless your doing long shots and you require a bigger kill zone."[end qoute]


Ok real question here as to the rational behind that.


Let's strech it a little bit and say the heart lung area is 10 inches high and 14 long. That's a 140 sq inches to hit. Head 4 X 4 inches 16 sq inches. Neck 3 X 14 inches at best 42 sq inches of target at 400 500 yards what is the "bigger kill zone" to shoot at. Is there something wrong with your logic? It's pretty basic sniper action - Man standing at 1000 yards away are you going for a head shot or a chest body shot.

The whole thing I posted above is typical game bullets are made to hold together and even if they double in diameter the hole is still very small. I hunt with a .458 and it's just another whole world of a bigger baseball bat.

 

[Guest]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Charles,
Thank you for the clarification. No bones were hit in either deer, as my confidence in this new shooter was not high enough to make high neck shots. 1st Deer bullet entrance was the (arm pit) of the right front leg, and hard to find. Exit was just behind left front leg; taking a clean cut of muscle from the left front leg. Deer 2 - Bullet entrance and exit were approximately 5" higher; in & out with no bone or muscle. Fortunately they both went down where they were hit. Still a noticable difference between the SGK and The Corelockt. However, I am not saying in any fashion; that SGK's are not great bullets. They just did not perform to my liking in these situations. They may shoot superbly in another situation. I appreciate your comments, and like everyone else on here; you appear to be quite sharp at this game, and can take some ribbing as well! Thanks for your comments, and Good Shootin' PS: Would appreciate your theory on what the problem may be with my situation. Thanks, Mike

[ 11-11-2004: Message edited by: nighthunter264winmag ]

 

[Charles A]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Budlight,
the reason the 12G slug works so well is because it has a huge crush cavity, doesn't really matter has fast its going when it's almost an inch in diamater.

I dont know what bullet your talking about, but we have shot ALOT of deer from 35-180lbs with Matchkings. Ranges have been from 30 to 930yds all in the chest and upwards of 90% have dropped on the spot, with unbelievable tissue damage. Yet that bullet will still penetrate steel pretty well. The reason is that when it strikes something(providing its thick enough) it(usually) tumbles and fragments. Wont do that in steel.

Nighthunter, I really cant tell you what happened without seeing the wound, however if they dropped, I would say nothings wrong. That bullet had to create alot of hydrostatic shock and/or broke the spine(which from your account they didn't) for them to drop. Next time you shoot one really pay attention when you field dress it to the damage done.

If I was able to I would post pics of exit wounds, but I can not. If someone is willing, I can send pictures for you to post.


Oh and yes I can take ribbings very well, I have lot of expierence in eating crow.

 

[Guest]

Re: 2 TX Deer with SGK\'s

Thanks for the replies!