18 inch 1:14 22-250
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BallisticsGuy
Well-Known Member
Probably should ask your suppressor manufacturer. Blast will certainly increase as you shorten the pipe but I've never seen a .22-250 with that short of a barrel.
I talked with Silencerco previously and they said as far as the suppressor I could go down to 16. I was referencing here more of stabilizing the bullet.
BallisticsGuy
Well-Known Member
That will not be stable according to Berger's stability calculator or my own. Your Sg is around .8 well into the 5000fps zone.
What's the shortest that will stabilize? 20 inch?
Not trying to derail your thread but have you thought about a short barrel 223 instead? I would be curious what the velocity difference is between the two with 18 or 20 inch barrels. I shoot a 20 inch 223 with 50 grain v-max. I need to crono a few rounds, but it is very deadly out to 500 yards.
aushunter1
Well-Known Member
Well from my understanding as a general rule you usually lose around 50fps per inch of barrel cut so if your losing 8 inches your looking at a possible 400fps drop which is a lot.
Doesnt mean 40gr's wont work because lets say you were getting around 4000fps out of a 40gr load you will then be getting 3600fps, thats still moving!
Still as we all know speed does not always determine a accurate load so again with the short barrel how is that going to affect accuracy??
Obviuosly would need tobe re crowned well.
As you get into the longer & heavier proj's then things change but its really only by trial & error you will find out.
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kiwikid
Well-Known Member
Towards the back of the Sierra manuals there is a section on Single Shot Pistols which includes the 22-250 but the barrel they used is a 1:12" twist 15" barrel but they do list loads up to their 63 grain SMP .
However if we look at the 222 Rem loading data they used a 1:14" twist 10" barrel and their loading info goes up to their 52 grain HPBT and 53 grain HP Match King. In the 50 grain section they list among others the 50 grain Blitz which is longer and obviously heavier than your preferred 40 grain V-Max.
This suggests to me that your 1:14" twist barrel should easily stabilize the 40 gr V-Max if you were to shorten it to 18 inches.
I am shooting 55 grain Sierra Game Kings out of a 1:14" twist 22" 22-250 barrel at 3600 fps and know a guy that is shooting the same bullet out of his 20" 1:14" 22-250.
However if we look at the 222 Rem loading data they used a 1:14" twist 10" barrel and their loading info goes up to their 52 grain HPBT and 53 grain HP Match King. In the 50 grain section they list among others the 50 grain Blitz which is longer and obviously heavier than your preferred 40 grain V-Max.
This suggests to me that your 1:14" twist barrel should easily stabilize the 40 gr V-Max if you were to shorten it to 18 inches.
I am shooting 55 grain Sierra Game Kings out of a 1:14" twist 22" 22-250 barrel at 3600 fps and know a guy that is shooting the same bullet out of his 20" 1:14" 22-250.
ShtrRdy
Well-Known Member
I would think a 40 grain bullet would be okay through a 1:14.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Doesn't really matter the barrel length or velocity. It happens that 14tw is sufficient for 40vmax bullets.
Thanks this is what I was looking for! Didn't know if only giving it barely over one rev would be ok but good to know that doesn't matter
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
The bullet has to turn pretty much exactly with the rifling. A given twist rate is imparted with 40" rifle barrels just the same as with 4" handgun barrels.
You might hold a notion(as many do) that stability is tied to RPMs. But there is no TIME in stability calcs. No velocity in feet per SECOND, nor revolutions per MINUTE.
Stability is a matter of a given bullet's relative displacement per turn(like 14"per turn). The displacement is relative because that 14" represents a quantity of drag, which is overturning to the bullet. Drag is affected by velocity, and this is where folks get the idea that velocity is significant to stability. But it really isn't.
Even the drag hit at transonic is not as significant to stability as bullet release from muzzle. That point, muzzle release, is the biggest challenge to overcome, and why bullets tumbling do so immediately.
As a bullet travels down range, it's turn rate drops fairly slowly, while it's displacement per each turn reduces way more. So as velocity decreases all the way, gyroscopic stability goes up all the way. With this, by the time a bullet has slowed to transonic, it would take more than that drag jump to tumble a bullet. So all is fine there.
Higher air density(like at sea level on a cold day) makes 14" of displacement way different than at lower air densities(summer in the mountains).
I just referred to bullet turn rate, and RPM thinkers would jump on that.
It's wrong thinking to do so though.
Stability is not affected by turn rate, but by displacement per turn, regardless of turn rate.
It's important to latch onto this reality, because it's far more important to consider the bullet and air density for needed twist rates, than velocities.
It's very rare when velocity is significant to stability. And if there, a bump in velocity just prevents tumbling, you're a long way from better solution (correct bullet or twist).
You might hold a notion(as many do) that stability is tied to RPMs. But there is no TIME in stability calcs. No velocity in feet per SECOND, nor revolutions per MINUTE.
Stability is a matter of a given bullet's relative displacement per turn(like 14"per turn). The displacement is relative because that 14" represents a quantity of drag, which is overturning to the bullet. Drag is affected by velocity, and this is where folks get the idea that velocity is significant to stability. But it really isn't.
Even the drag hit at transonic is not as significant to stability as bullet release from muzzle. That point, muzzle release, is the biggest challenge to overcome, and why bullets tumbling do so immediately.
As a bullet travels down range, it's turn rate drops fairly slowly, while it's displacement per each turn reduces way more. So as velocity decreases all the way, gyroscopic stability goes up all the way. With this, by the time a bullet has slowed to transonic, it would take more than that drag jump to tumble a bullet. So all is fine there.
Higher air density(like at sea level on a cold day) makes 14" of displacement way different than at lower air densities(summer in the mountains).
I just referred to bullet turn rate, and RPM thinkers would jump on that.
It's wrong thinking to do so though.
Stability is not affected by turn rate, but by displacement per turn, regardless of turn rate.
It's important to latch onto this reality, because it's far more important to consider the bullet and air density for needed twist rates, than velocities.
It's very rare when velocity is significant to stability. And if there, a bump in velocity just prevents tumbling, you're a long way from better solution (correct bullet or twist).
Do you shoot deer with yours or varmint/predator gun?
kiwikid
Well-Known Member
For many years I used a Carl Gustaf 9000 (Husqvarna 1900) in 22-250 with a 23.5" 1:14" barrel for all my hunting. It accounted for over 100 deer, mainly Red deer plus a few Sika and a very large Sambar stag. Also around 20 pigs, a truck load of goats, wallabies, possums, rabbits, hares plus a few feral domestic cats.
We don't have large predators here but I did shoot 4 or 5 large dogs that had gone wild and were killing sheep on the large farm I was working on.
My bullet of choice back then, late 70s to 90s was either the Sierra 55 grain Game King (#1365) or the Speer 55 grain SP (#1047).
All but one of the deer were neck shot and I only had to put a second bullet into one hind and the shots ranged from 6 yards to just over 300 yards.
