168 gr, Berger VLD in 280 Remington? Load suggestions?

[Bravo 4]

I am thinking of buying a 280 Rem for elk and deer hunting - how has the 280 with Berger 168 VLD bullets performed in the field on elk?

The reason I am asking is that the BAR 7-mag I had was too loud and a bit heavy for me to be a good elk hunter so I want to tone down the powder charge yet still want to be able to hunt long range.

The Browning 708 I had shot well as far as accuracy but to me it has seemed a bit underpowered when it comes to elk hunting in the one cow that I nailed in the lungs ran like 60 yrds before dropping and I think I have hit other elk by noting the whack but not seeing any go down so my concern was that it might be underpowered and wanted something that packs more punch.

Now these 168 VLD Berger bullets have everyone that has used them just raving about their practical use even on elk - what are your experiences and or comments or ideas - I am open to suggestions for a good elk hunting cartridge that still can be used for long range hunting and doesn't kick or boom like the magnums with enough punch to essentially drop an elk so that I don't have to wonder if I nailed it or not - I even thought using 3006 or 338Federal but the bigger the boom the more on follow up shots I tend to flinch.

Thanks for your time!

Hey brother, I'm not trying to call you out but am rather perplexed by some of your comments. You don't owe me an explanation, I just find some of your posts are contradictory...at least to me.
You say that you used a BAR 7 mag and it was too heavy (which isn't really heavy on its own) but then say you want to add things like a suppressor. A suppressor, especially a QD mount with brake, adds weight.
Then say you might load it down but the 7-08 isn't enough. Doesn't the 7-08 basically give you mild 7 mag ballistics?

Now the whole paragraph you wrote about whacking elk does throw up a couple of flags to me. If I shoot an elk through the lungs and it only runs 60 yards I would be happy and consider that good performance. I've shot more than one deer through the lungs with a 7mag and 150 ballistic tips at relatively short ranges and have them run for a couple hundred yards. You should only expect bang-flops with a central nervous system hit. Not that a lung/heart won't drop them, just don't expect it. That isn't what sends up a flag, this: "I think I have hit other elk by noting the whack but not seeing any go down" kind of sounds like you didn't go look. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or it's written in a matter that makes it sound that way? I know elk aren't bullet proof, you don't need a crazy super magnum to kill them, bullet placement is key, yadda-yadda-yadda...but the few experiences I have with elk show that they can absorb a lot of lead and sometimes stand there and look at you like you're stupid.

Am I just off on this?

 

[CogburnR]

I would try some rl22. I see that Alliant has some new powders, rl 23 and rl26.
Alliant Reloder 23 and 26 Propellants - American Rifleman Mobile

 

[aring]

I'm shooting a mauser m12 in 7x64 brenneke, 22 inch barrel, almost the same as Your 280 Remington

I've found that Norma 204 gives better velocity and accuracy with 160 gr bullets, tried partitions, interlocks and Sierra SBT and hpbt, over H1000 and Vn165 and H4831sc

For now I' ve settled for the Sierra 160gr SBT, Norma 204, 53gr, MV 2630

 

[MudRunner2005]

This is a good suggestion however while a break reduces recoil it also increases the boom or noise factor - for me - if I get an FFL I can use a silencer/break combination which would probably be the ticket but getting an FFL is not that easy - but I think it would be worth meeting requirements - also the way I understand Berger VLD bullets are designed not to pass through but concuss by breaking apart and expending the energy of moving bullet inside game - is this not correct?

You don't have to have an FFL for a suppressor...Unless you build your own, in which case you will need a Class III Manufacturer's license.

But you can go buy a suppressor if you can legally buy a handgun. You just have to fill out your Form 4 paperwork, and wait till your form is approved. Then you can go pick it up from the Class III dealer.

 

[SRHeer]

Primary purpose for me to shoot is to hunt - in Colorado one must have a FFL to hunt with a can or noise suppressor - understanding how bullets differentiate in performance is key to hunting and selecting both cartridge and bullet - I am leaning on getting a Rem 260 and or 6.5X284 do some reloading and select proper bullet depending on what and how I hunt. Thanks for the insights!

 

[ohiohunter]

i shot a bighorn with a 168 berger it did not pass through. i wold put a brake on the 7mm mag.

I shot an oryx in the neck, high neck, and did not get an exit at 80yds w/ a 280 pushing 168's. If I were hunting elk long range I'd be shooting 180's. I wouldn't use anything less when considering "long range". Mid range a 168gr will work, but not the 168 berger. I like exit wounds, if tracking is needed I do not want the hide to slip over my only hole. Which is why I like 2 holes.

Personally I don't consider the 260 (absolutely not) nor the 6.5x284 long range (1000yd) elk guns. I'd want my bullets to have a little more weight behind them.

 

[reeldawg]

Just FYI you need a $200 Federal tax stamp for the suppressor.

 

[barefooter56]

Nimrodmar10,
Contact us at [email protected] for help on this.

 

[roninflag]

I've got a Remington 700 Stainless Mountain Rifle that I'm wanting to work up a load for. I bought it for an elk and mule deer gun before I got too fat to run up and down the Rockies. It worked good on both with the Federal 160 gr. Nosler Partitions.

The biggest thing I shoot now is Tennessee Whitetails. But to make that more interesting, I shoot them at long range. In doing so, I've started using the Berger VLDs and like them. I usually shoot the heaviest bullet possible for the higher BCs. I know from past experiences that I can't reliably shoot the 180 VLD in the Remington 1 in 9 1/4" factory twist, especially with the slower velocity of the .280 Rem. So I thought I'd try and work up a load with the 168 gr. VLD.

I searched this forum for this caliber/bullet combination and didn't find any posts. But I know that some of you guys know how good a caliber the 280 Rem. is. I also know we have lots of Berger fans on here. So I'm betting some of you have some pet loads that you might share.

The gun has a 22" thin conture barrel. The barrel is not floated. There is a pressure pad at the tip of the fore end, but with the whippy barrel and light weight stock, I think this is a good thing. It shoots MOA with the Federal factory 160 gr. Partition loads and the one 100gr, HP load that I worked up for coyotes. That is not a fur friendly load.

I asked this same question about a 6.5-284 about a month ago for a new Savage 111 LRH I purchased. I got some very good load advise from you guys. I kind of ignored it and spent a month and a lot of money on reloading components testing lots of different loads, only to come to the conclusion that the suggested loads were exactly right. I won't do that this time.

I'm thinking H1000, IMR-7828SSC, RE-19 or maybe H4831SC, but if I'm on the wrong track, please set me straight.
Thanks guys.

Nimrod- for whitetails i would use a 140 berger or a 140 cbt. h4350 is a powder i would start with

 

[trebark]

I've got a Remington 700 Stainless Mountain Rifle that I'm wanting to work up a load for. I bought it for an elk and mule deer gun before I got too fat to run up and down the Rockies. It worked good on both with the Federal 160 gr. Nosler Partitions.

The biggest thing I shoot now is Tennessee Whitetails. But to make that more interesting, I shoot them at long range. In doing so, I've started using the Berger VLDs and like them. I usually shoot the heaviest bullet possible for the higher BCs. I know from past experiences that I can't reliably shoot the 180 VLD in the Remington 1 in 9 1/4" factory twist, especially with the slower velocity of the .280 Rem. So I thought I'd try and work up a load with the 168 gr. VLD.

I searched this forum for this caliber/bullet combination and didn't find any posts. But I know that some of you guys know how good a caliber the 280 Rem. is. I also know we have lots of Berger fans on here. So I'm betting some of you have some pet loads that you might share.

The gun has a 22" thin conture barrel. The barrel is not floated. There is a pressure pad at the tip of the fore end, but with the whippy barrel and light weight stock, I think this is a good thing. It shoots MOA with the Federal factory 160 gr. Partition loads and the one 100gr, HP load that I worked up for coyotes. That is not a fur friendly load.

I asked this same question about a 6.5-284 about a month ago for a new Savage 111 LRH I purchased. I got some very good load advise from you guys. I kind of ignored it and spent a month and a lot of money on reloading components testing lots of different loads, only to come to the conclusion that the suggested loads were exactly right. I won't do that this time.

I'm thinking H1000, IMR-7828SSC, RE-19 or maybe H4831SC, but if I'm on the wrong track, please set me straight.
Thanks guys.

Someone has lit this old thread up. And I'm curious to know if there's an update. I have a 280rem that shoots the 168hybrids at 2800 with Retumbo. Your go-to powders will be H1000 or Retumbo. The other suggestions of H4831, H4350 and Varget are too fast for the 168grain bullets.

 

[nvreloader]

You might want to try RL-26, you might be surprised, don't know about the accuracy end yet.

Using your spec's you posted, QL shows 2700+ fps @ 50,000PSI.

I am waiting for my 280AI reamer to get here so I can finish my build, on my 1000 + yd SP pistol.
Then I can give some spec's etc.

Tia,
Don

 

[ohiohunter]

H4831 too fast? Absolutely false. I push 180's with 4831 and so does everyone else I know except one guy uses 4350.

 

[barefooter56]

I've got a Remington 700 Stainless Mountain Rifle that I'm wanting to work up a load for. I bought it for an elk and mule deer gun before I got too fat to run up and down the Rockies. It worked good on both with the Federal 160 gr. Nosler Partitions.

The biggest thing I shoot now is Tennessee Whitetails. But to make that more interesting, I shoot them at long range. In doing so, I've started using the Berger VLDs and like them. I usually shoot the heaviest bullet possible for the higher BCs. I know from past experiences that I can't reliably shoot the 180 VLD in the Remington 1 in 9 1/4" factory twist, especially with the slower velocity of the .280 Rem. So I thought I'd try and work up a load with the 168 gr. VLD.

I searched this forum for this caliber/bullet combination and didn't find any posts. But I know that some of you guys know how good a caliber the 280 Rem. is. I also know we have lots of Berger fans on here. So I'm betting some of you have some pet loads that you might share.

The gun has a 22" thin conture barrel. The barrel is not floated. There is a pressure pad at the tip of the fore end, but with the whippy barrel and light weight stock, I think this is a good thing. It shoots MOA with the Federal factory 160 gr. Partition loads and the one 100gr, HP load that I worked up for coyotes. That is not a fur friendly load.

I asked this same question about a 6.5-284 about a month ago for a new Savage 111 LRH I purchased. I got some very good load advise from you guys. I kind of ignored it and spent a month and a lot of money on reloading components testing lots of different loads, only to come to the conclusion that the suggested loads were exactly right. I won't do that this time.

I'm thinking H1000, IMR-7828SSC, RE-19 or maybe H4831SC, but if I'm on the wrong track, please set me straight.
Thanks guys.

Nimrodmar10,
If your rifle is the standard "short-medium" action you MAY find that after doing your seating depth testing with the VLD that the round will not fit or cycle through the magazine. If using the rifle in a single shot mode is no issue for you, then no problem. If it is. Go to our 168 CLASSIC HUNTER bullets. These are a HYBRID design that incorporates both the secant (VLD) and tangent ( standard) ogives in a SAMMI length nose dimension that makes it very tolerant of jump and easy to tun for at magazine length. The loads for the .280 listed in our manual are all based on magazine length. So if you are setting the bullet out twords the lands and exposing more case capacity you MAY be able to exceed the maximum loads listed for the bullet/powder/cartridge you are testing for. You may also want to try H4350 or H4831SC. These powders are faster than the IMR7828SSC and will give you a more efficient burn in your 22 inch barrel. Velocity is nice but ACCURACY is the be all and end all.

 

[Brianc74]

Pm sent to barefoot56

Brian