New Bullet Concept… CRAZY?

MT-JONAS · 2025-01-30T14:20:39-0600

For a while now I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a copper bullet with the back of the shank drilled out and a tungsten insert installed up to the typical after-impact/expansion length.

Weights
•Tungsten weighs 0.697 lbs per cubic inch
•Copper weighs 0.314 pounds per cubic inch
•Lead weighs 0.41 pounds per cubic inch

Tungsten is more than 2x the weight of copper.

Copper melts at approximately 2000 degrees and tungsten at approximately 6200 degrees.
The tungsten could be heated to the appropriate temperature needed to melt securely into the copper and lock the 2 together.

It would remove the need for overly long projectiles needed for weight in lead free options.

Is this idea crazy?

FireFlyFishing · 2025-01-30T14:29:09-0600

What's the cost difference of those 3 metals?

huntinfool18 · 2025-01-30T14:33:43-0600

Didn't Barnes make a bullet with a similar concept at one point?
Just looked it up, check out the Barnes MRX.

bultinkle · 2025-01-30T14:35:02-0600

…. Why?

Presis Skyter · 2025-01-30T14:36:54-0600

Sounds like an awesome bullet for performance but the cost would be too much for anyone. Look at the cost of tungsten vs lead fishing sinkers.

memtb · 2025-01-30T14:40:07-0600

MT-JONAS said:
For a while now I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a copper bullet with the back of the shank drilled out and a tungsten insert installed up to the typical after-impact/expansion length.

Weights
•Tungsten weighs 0.697 lbs per cubic inch
•Copper weighs 0.314 pounds per cubic inch
•Lead weighs 0.41 pounds per cubic inch

Tungsten is more than 2x the weight of copper.

Copper melts at approximately 2000 degrees and tungsten at approximately 6200 degrees.
The tungsten could be heated to the appropriate temperature needed to melt securely into the copper and lock the 2 together.

It would remove the need for overly long projectiles needed for weight in lead free options.

Is this idea crazy?

I think that Barnes experimented with that years ago. I don't know if it just didn't catch on or it had issues!

Then again…..maybe I dreamed the entire thing up!

memtb

GSRetrievers · 2025-01-30T14:46:54-0600

Presis Skyter said:
Sounds like an awesome bullet for performance but the cost would be too much for anyone. Look at the cost of tungsten vs lead fishing sinkers.

Look at the cost of tungsten vs steel vs lead shotgun shells

fseaman.js · 2025-01-30T14:47:15-0600

MT-JONAS said:
For a while now I've been wondering if it would be possible to create a copper bullet with the back of the shank drilled out and a tungsten insert installed up to the typical after-impact/expansion length.

Weights
•Tungsten weighs 0.697 lbs per cubic inch
•Copper weighs 0.314 pounds per cubic inch
•Lead weighs 0.41 pounds per cubic inch

Tungsten is more than 2x the weight of copper.

Copper melts at approximately 2000 degrees and tungsten at approximately 6200 degrees.
The tungsten could be heated to the appropriate temperature needed to melt securely into the copper and lock the 2 together.

It would remove the need for overly long projectiles needed for weight in lead free options.

Is this idea crazy?

There are challenges.

Legality - they are considered armor piercing.
Cost - very expensive.
Has to be clad - it needs something around it to protect the barrel.
Forming - it's hard to work with.

I got some tungsten powder used for fishing weights and golf head weights to experiment with but never completed the project. Machined copper with a tungsten matrix core. Something not so hard as to be considered armor piercing but heavier than copper to bring the sectional density up to equal or more than cup and core bullets.

Reached the point where the cost+effort did not give enough return over cup and core.

lancetkenyon · 2025-01-30T14:55:35-0600

Tungsten waterfowl shells are about $4/ea for a 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 Oz payload. If even half of that cost is in Tungsten, that makes it about $1.45/oz.

1 3/8 Oz is 601gr.

Add maybe 50gr to a 90gr copper would be about $.12 worth of tungsten to a $1.00 mono. Add some extra labor for the process, making a $2.00 bullet? Pretty pricey for a 1 time use projectile. Not sure if it would sell much.

But I like the idea. Make a sleek mono with some added weight and jump the BC up.

MT-JONAS · 2025-01-30T15:01:22-0600

lancetkenyon said:
Add maybe 50gr to a 90gr copper would be about $.12 worth of tungsten to a $1.00 mono. Add some extra labor for the process, making a $2.00 bullet? Pretty pricey for a 1 time use projectile. Not sure if it would sell much.

But I like the idea. Make a sleek mono with some added weight and jump the BC up.

So basically the price of a Hammer

MT-JONAS · 2025-01-30T15:19:08-0600

bultinkle said:
…. Why?

Increase weight in a non-lead projectile without requiring faster twist rifling. And the added length of all copper infringing on either mag length or too far into the case resulting in powder reduction.

RichCoyle · 2025-01-30T15:19:29-0600

MT-JONAS said:
So basically the price of a Hammer

Might cost the same but I doubt it would be as accurate with the two metals.

fruitnut · 2025-01-30T15:20:35-0600

The tungsten core, being so heavy, might just punch through the copper upon impact. Now not just a fragmenting nose but the whole copper envelope might separate from the tungsten.

To my way of thinking the lighter weight of copper has an advantage. It can allow a more steamlined shape at a lighter weight thus allowing greater velocity. If you build bullets shaped exactly the same the higher weight of cup and core gives higher BC. But the copper bullet can be driven at higher velocity.

fseaman.js · 2025-01-30T15:30:57-0600

MT-JONAS said:
Increase weight in a non-lead projectile without requiring faster twist rifling. And the added length of all copper infringing on either mag length or too far into the case resulting in powder reduction.

This is basically the reason I started down this rabbit hole in 2017.

Since then, Hornady, Berger and Cutting Edge have created and improved designs. Others have improved or created new stuff as well but they are more hunting oriented.

The concept really only works for long range "target", "PRS" or "King of xx" type uses where cost+time can be justified for competition.

New Bullet Concept… CRAZY?

MT-JONAS

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FireFlyFishing

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huntinfool18

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bultinkle

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Presis Skyter

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memtb

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GSRetrievers

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fseaman.js

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lancetkenyon

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MT-JONAS

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MT-JONAS

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RichCoyle

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fruitnut

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fseaman.js

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