Wedgy
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As stated by PDVDH, buffer is to reduce pellet deformation but TSS does not deform because it is so hard.
Reloading tss T and #4 buck loads
- Thread starter FlGunner
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I don't expect 15 more grains of buffer will create significant additional pressure.
I've sensed extra pressure more from my shotguns than from the shotshell hulls or primers, in the past. In both pump actions and semi-auto actions. The actions behaved differently, compared to firing factory shells. I think shotshell pressure climbs less suddenly than high powered rifles, which can be operating at 65,000psi.
Shotshells and barrels are larger diameter, and therefore, greater volume. Takes quite a bit to make a safe pressure load get to unsafe.
I've sensed extra pressure more from my shotguns than from the shotshell hulls or primers, in the past. In both pump actions and semi-auto actions. The actions behaved differently, compared to firing factory shells. I think shotshell pressure climbs less suddenly than high powered rifles, which can be operating at 65,000psi.
Shotshells and barrels are larger diameter, and therefore, greater volume. Takes quite a bit to make a safe pressure load get to unsafe.
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Add the additional buffer if needed. Pressure signs are just like rifle pressure signs, rim will bulge or get thicker, lettering will get flat, and primers will be easily pushed out of the case with a straight large paper clip. If you start shooting cases with loose primer pockets, a primer will come out after firing and end up in the action or trigger group.
I always examine the wads on fired rounds when working up loads. If the load burns up the wad or tears up the wad in a very strange way, it indicates that the load may not perform the same from shot to shot. At a certain point, the pressure will burn through or blow out the gas seal on the wad's base, which gives erratic ignition.
You may play with lubing up your wads with motor mica to ease the pressure some.
I learned from an Olympic shooter that plastic in the bore dramatically distorts patterns. So, examine your bore keep the plastic out of the bore, and choke. I can not stress the clean bore issue enough, it was a humbling thing to learn in my testing. Also, some wads will deposit more plastic in the bore than other brands or types due to the different materials they are made of.
Again, Bubba Round Tree on You Tube, Face book is a world of knowledge in loading large shot and buckshot.
TSS is so expensive, I can not afford it, but I do mold my buckshot with a mix of 50/50 linotype and wheel weights which is MUCH harder than anything you can buy. The Hard buckshot sold by Ballistic Products is darn good buckshot. The T shot sold by Ballistic Products will kill coyotes a long ways out there with Bubba Round Tree's loads.
I always examine the wads on fired rounds when working up loads. If the load burns up the wad or tears up the wad in a very strange way, it indicates that the load may not perform the same from shot to shot. At a certain point, the pressure will burn through or blow out the gas seal on the wad's base, which gives erratic ignition.
You may play with lubing up your wads with motor mica to ease the pressure some.
I learned from an Olympic shooter that plastic in the bore dramatically distorts patterns. So, examine your bore keep the plastic out of the bore, and choke. I can not stress the clean bore issue enough, it was a humbling thing to learn in my testing. Also, some wads will deposit more plastic in the bore than other brands or types due to the different materials they are made of.
Again, Bubba Round Tree on You Tube, Face book is a world of knowledge in loading large shot and buckshot.
TSS is so expensive, I can not afford it, but I do mold my buckshot with a mix of 50/50 linotype and wheel weights which is MUCH harder than anything you can buy. The Hard buckshot sold by Ballistic Products is darn good buckshot. The T shot sold by Ballistic Products will kill coyotes a long ways out there with Bubba Round Tree's loads.
I did email Wade and he replied back very quickly…he too is starting to experiment with TSS buckshot. Hopefully he'll share his results soon.
Just imagine the cost of TSS on 200 rounds!
Well I got out and done some experimenting with different chokes. Not impressed with my patterns. I tried filling the shell the rest of the way with buffer. I did try 2 types of buffer. However I do believe the couple rounds I roll crimped pattern better …. Like a lot better.
I'm going to try some smaller shot size that maybe will pattern better.
Chokes used:
Retay factory mod, IC, Light Mod
Carlson mod
Carlson Full .695
In the picture with the hulls…3 on left were 20 pellet loads, middle were 21 pellet, left 21 pellet roll crimped.
I'm going to try some smaller shot size that maybe will pattern better.
Chokes used:
Retay factory mod, IC, Light Mod
Carlson mod
Carlson Full .695
In the picture with the hulls…3 on left were 20 pellet loads, middle were 21 pellet, left 21 pellet roll crimped.
I guess this is an off topic question but could I build a load with smaller shot size the exact same way if I use the same exact weight of shot? Guess what I'm asking is can I use an
1 5/8 ounce load of TSS BB or any size (6,7,8,9) I choose the same as 1 5/8 ounce load of TSS #4 buck or 1 5/8 ounce of T shot TSS. Everything else the same like hull, wad, cork, powder charge…etc just change shot size.
1 5/8 ounce load of TSS BB or any size (6,7,8,9) I choose the same as 1 5/8 ounce load of TSS #4 buck or 1 5/8 ounce of T shot TSS. Everything else the same like hull, wad, cork, powder charge…etc just change shot size.
philipbrousseau
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I've never crimped any TSS shotshells. Only roll crimped.
I've loaded #6s, #5s, #4s, 4 buck, 1 buck, and 0000 buckshot.
I've loaded duplex loads comprised of 50/50 #4s and #5s. And 50/50 #5s and #6s.
I've mixed 4 buck with 1 buck, and 1 buck with 0000 buck.
All my TSS shells have shot exceptionally dense patterns. With one exception... buckshot fired from a 12ga 18.5" long barrel. The same buckshot shells shot rifle-like patterns from a friend's 28" long double barrel shotgun. I suspected the excess gas on the base of the shotshell wad from my 18.5" barrel might be kicking/skewing the base of the wad off-center as it left the muzzle, disturbing the column of buckshot. So I ordered an improved cylinder Kicks brand ported choke tube. With the Kicks ported choke tube, the buckshot patterns were cut to 1/2 the diameter from the non-ported improved cylinder choke tube.
My conclusion: the high gas pressure exiting the muzzle of the short 18.5" barrel was kicking the base of the shot wad off-center, disturbing the pellet column and opening up the patterns. The Kicks ported choke tube shed enough gas pressure through the ports before the wad left the muzzle to reduce the disturbance to the base of the wad, and column of buckshot.
So... a short barrel could negatively impact your pattern density. If your barrel is the more normal 26 - 28" length, then perhaps your star crimp might be degrading your patterns? I never star crimped any TSS shotshells.
Yes, you can load the same weight of shot, in different pellet size, with the same powder charge. The different shot sizes, particularly your larger pellet sizes, may not occupy the same volume as with smaller pellets. Which might necessitate a different size cork or felt wad inside the plastic shot wad, in order to achieve the appropriate hull fill prior to crimping.
I patterned my TSS 4s and 5s from a full choke at 80yds: 50% of the pellets inside a 30" diameter circle. My shotgun is dead on at 80yds. At 100yds I have to hold 18" high. I've dropped one Sandhill crane at 135yds in flight, but it wasn't the one I was aiming for. I hit the Crane behind and below the one I was shooting at. All 5 pellets passed completely through the crane at 135 yds. He dropped like a rock. Never even twitched after impacting ground.
I never patterned any TSS buckshot loads past 35yds. But patterns were very tight. Almost too tight for my intended bear defense use. I did finished off one smallish wounded grizzly bear in a willow thicket with my TSS buckshot load. All pellets exited the bears chest.
My limited experiences with TSS buckshot, and those of a friends on deer and hog size animals, left us underwhelmed. Superb pellet penetration. But pellet paths lacked tissue damage and internal bleeding. The pellets remain perfect spheres while passing through the animals, and don't cause as much tissue destruction/damage as softer, deformed lead buckshot pellets.
I've loaded #6s, #5s, #4s, 4 buck, 1 buck, and 0000 buckshot.
I've loaded duplex loads comprised of 50/50 #4s and #5s. And 50/50 #5s and #6s.
I've mixed 4 buck with 1 buck, and 1 buck with 0000 buck.
All my TSS shells have shot exceptionally dense patterns. With one exception... buckshot fired from a 12ga 18.5" long barrel. The same buckshot shells shot rifle-like patterns from a friend's 28" long double barrel shotgun. I suspected the excess gas on the base of the shotshell wad from my 18.5" barrel might be kicking/skewing the base of the wad off-center as it left the muzzle, disturbing the column of buckshot. So I ordered an improved cylinder Kicks brand ported choke tube. With the Kicks ported choke tube, the buckshot patterns were cut to 1/2 the diameter from the non-ported improved cylinder choke tube.
My conclusion: the high gas pressure exiting the muzzle of the short 18.5" barrel was kicking the base of the shot wad off-center, disturbing the pellet column and opening up the patterns. The Kicks ported choke tube shed enough gas pressure through the ports before the wad left the muzzle to reduce the disturbance to the base of the wad, and column of buckshot.
So... a short barrel could negatively impact your pattern density. If your barrel is the more normal 26 - 28" length, then perhaps your star crimp might be degrading your patterns? I never star crimped any TSS shotshells.
Yes, you can load the same weight of shot, in different pellet size, with the same powder charge. The different shot sizes, particularly your larger pellet sizes, may not occupy the same volume as with smaller pellets. Which might necessitate a different size cork or felt wad inside the plastic shot wad, in order to achieve the appropriate hull fill prior to crimping.
I patterned my TSS 4s and 5s from a full choke at 80yds: 50% of the pellets inside a 30" diameter circle. My shotgun is dead on at 80yds. At 100yds I have to hold 18" high. I've dropped one Sandhill crane at 135yds in flight, but it wasn't the one I was aiming for. I hit the Crane behind and below the one I was shooting at. All 5 pellets passed completely through the crane at 135 yds. He dropped like a rock. Never even twitched after impacting ground.
I never patterned any TSS buckshot loads past 35yds. But patterns were very tight. Almost too tight for my intended bear defense use. I did finished off one smallish wounded grizzly bear in a willow thicket with my TSS buckshot load. All pellets exited the bears chest.
My limited experiences with TSS buckshot, and those of a friends on deer and hog size animals, left us underwhelmed. Superb pellet penetration. But pellet paths lacked tissue damage and internal bleeding. The pellets remain perfect spheres while passing through the animals, and don't cause as much tissue destruction/damage as softer, deformed lead buckshot pellets.
Roll crimping reduces pressure by approximately 8000 LUP.
I have been loading buckshot since the 80's when Ballistic's Products first started up.
For many applications, the Ballistic Products Super Hard buckshot will fulfill your needs when properly loaded. Every shotgun has its patterning characteristics, and I can not stress this enough.
Most do not realize that a shotgun may not have the pattern impact where you are aiming. Your gun fit is super critical on a shotgun. If your point of impact is way off from the point of aim, consider some type of sights you can put on your shotgun rib or a red dot sight.
The tightest patterns I have ever shot were with a Ballistic Products gas seal, hard wad, and wrap. You can make the hard wads out of construction materials and use a paper cutter to make a wrap out of plastic bottles cut to size. Buffer Works. A soft cushion in the base of the wad really helps the pattern, which is why the hard wads are so effective on lead shot.
T Shot, F buck, #4 Buck are just incredible on coyotes, and #2 shot works well on fox if you can find any #2. For self-defense, #1 Buckshot stacks in a wad so perfectly with a second best being 0 Buck for 12 GA.
TSS is so expensive, it will be hard to build a lifestyle around it, with the exception being turkey hunting where you fire very, very few rounds. Where I live, guys are having tremendous success with 410 and 20ga TSS shells with turkey at a distance.
Reloading a shotgun for long distances is a hobby within a hobby with great rewards, but it is not inexpensive to do down this road. We saw tremendous success with long range shots on Crows and Pigeons, not to mention Pheasants in Kansas.
Lengthening the forcing cone on the chamber drops pressure on the base of the shot column tremendously. So much so, you may have to add more powder to achieve the same speed on your load.
I have been loading buckshot since the 80's when Ballistic's Products first started up.
For many applications, the Ballistic Products Super Hard buckshot will fulfill your needs when properly loaded. Every shotgun has its patterning characteristics, and I can not stress this enough.
Most do not realize that a shotgun may not have the pattern impact where you are aiming. Your gun fit is super critical on a shotgun. If your point of impact is way off from the point of aim, consider some type of sights you can put on your shotgun rib or a red dot sight.
The tightest patterns I have ever shot were with a Ballistic Products gas seal, hard wad, and wrap. You can make the hard wads out of construction materials and use a paper cutter to make a wrap out of plastic bottles cut to size. Buffer Works. A soft cushion in the base of the wad really helps the pattern, which is why the hard wads are so effective on lead shot.
T Shot, F buck, #4 Buck are just incredible on coyotes, and #2 shot works well on fox if you can find any #2. For self-defense, #1 Buckshot stacks in a wad so perfectly with a second best being 0 Buck for 12 GA.
TSS is so expensive, it will be hard to build a lifestyle around it, with the exception being turkey hunting where you fire very, very few rounds. Where I live, guys are having tremendous success with 410 and 20ga TSS shells with turkey at a distance.
Reloading a shotgun for long distances is a hobby within a hobby with great rewards, but it is not inexpensive to do down this road. We saw tremendous success with long range shots on Crows and Pigeons, not to mention Pheasants in Kansas.
Lengthening the forcing cone on the chamber drops pressure on the base of the shot column tremendously. So much so, you may have to add more powder to achieve the same speed on your load.
