Irregular bullet preformance to consistency

Gday
This is often a fun one to delve into
So let's rip a few things apart & muddy some more ( if one can understand me being the first hurdle )

The first port of call is what is a irregular bullet ( pills as I call them or the projectile part of a bullet )

So to me it starts with the bullet company we get their standard to start with as they tell us that's how the pill works

Probably the best one that the vast majority of us know is Barnes & the ever so picture perfect mushroom that we all have seen so no need to attach a pic of one those

back to general pills now
But then we hear or have it happen to us but the pill blew up or penciled

Yet many others will come in & go no way I got this result & the better ones show pictures of their results and in many cases we get into this ****ing match & it goes off the track & ultimately we end up arguing about everything else than the irregularities that ultimately lead to a failure

Now I mean this with the utmost respect
Most people go off the good which is only part of the story & I like full stories & until we take the bad into account we will learn nothing as we are all happy in acceptance mode right
I like the good ones but in all reality the bad ones teach us more

The real issue is here ( the bad ones & % numbers aren't factual & is just a talking point for conversation sake ) as it may only be 50% that it shows up of being irregular & yet 50% of those may still give a good result of a fairly good killing efficiency
So now we are down to a 25% failure or are we
No way as now we need to analyse where those 50% irregularities are occurring & more importantly why / where the failure is occurring ( then add the happy with a dead critter people & man alive you now have real issues on that 25% getting found out especially if it's a company as then it's you get what they are happy with and that's a low bar although they will portray it differently )

Now let's break that 25% down further & This is the hard part as now you need numbers of critters & today I even struggle to get enough of them to form a higher probability of a irregular occurrence & ultimately a failure occurring
But what I am extremely lucky in doing is honing in on where a pill will give these irregular results & more likely failure point of seeing these failures occurring in the field


It's not that I'm smart it's far from it it's I'm measuring /recording a lot of things & a couple of my yank mates who I've had the pleasure of entertaining in my home state Tassie soon saw why I hone in on certain angles & resistances as if it passes them you just won't see that so called 25% failure rate

Best example I can give is my 6.5 data I gathered on around 10 pills if I was to shoot the critters like I know & has shown killed better I wouldn't have gathered a better indicator of a pill's capabilities @ those lower impacts & i pretty well guarantee I would then have a shaded view on where things work better down there as I did prior to that particular cull but I had my eyes opened pretty wide on what occurred

But let's get even more anal everything still showed irregular results across those low velocity test from pill to pill & within ea pill itself but also by breaking ea of them down & looking @ the process of the way ea pill was working I could see patterns & simpler version of that still holds somewhat true of soft was the more consistent player @ low velocity impacts but also I found a little more on wet & dry impacts & where the hydraulic system was playing roles in certain brands more than others & some seemed immune to needing fluid so are they the better option to use

Some cases yes others no imo but learn we can so to lessen our own risk of the irregular occurrence

Just think how we have heard the need to stay off bone or hit bone or keep that pill above or below certain velocities ,
Yep depends on one's choice of pill to it's actual good working velocity window & the bandaids we can apply also help to reign in some of the irregular eg cleaning hp to increasing twist rates etc

Just a little to start ticking on & one I'll add some more as we go

Cheers

No bullet is perfect in every situation, and a situation can turn a great bullet into a disaster.
Case in point.
These are 375 260g Accubonds, muzzle velocity was 3000fps out of my custom 375 Weatherby, all but ONE performed as expected and relied upon to do the job. These are from different Water Buffalo. The first one in the pic, was shot into the pelvis/hip to anchor the bull before he got into the water. It did not penetrate through the hip bone as many other Accubonds have in the past, it spread the bone causing the bull to drop, but that was it, total of about 6" penetration. Never seen anything like it before or since. Had to dig it out with my knife.

The one by itself is a 338 225g Accubond for reference..

Cheers.

MagnumManiac said:

No bullet is perfect in every situation, and a situation can turn a great bullet into a disaster.
Case in point.
These are 375 260g Accubonds, muzzle velocity was 3000fps out of my custom 375 Weatherby, all but ONE performed as expected and relied upon to do the job. These are from different Water Buffalo. The first one in the pic, was shot into the pelvis/hip to anchor the bull before he got into the water. It did not penetrate through the hip bone as many other Accubonds have in the past, it spread the bone causing the bull to drop, but that was it, total of about 6" penetration. Never seen anything like it before or since. Had to dig it out with my knife.

The one by itself is a 338 225g Accubond for reference..

Cheers.

Click to expand...

In my experience more bullet weight is needed in .375 for buff. Reckon you're on the edge with the 260gr Accubond that I've also used a lot of. I had similar experiences with various 270gr bullets on buff, but once I moved up to 300gr and 350gr the results were most consistent.

Aussie Hunter Steve said:

In my experience more bullet weight is needed in .375 for buff. Reckon you're on the edge with the 260gr Accubond that I've also used a lot of. I had similar experiences with various 270gr bullets on buff, but once I moved up to 300gr and 350gr the results were most consistent.

Click to expand...

It was a test to see if they would penetrate like the 250g 338 Accubond, they did not in every instance. Those 225g 338 Accubonds worked just as well as the 260g 375's.
I've used both 260g & 300g Accubonds in 375 at Weatherby velocities, the hitting power difference is visible against H&H hitting power, as you know with your 375 Weatherby.

Cheers.

Call them bullets.
You have bullets, and cases, assembled as cartridges.
Not trying to be a jerk, but to possibly help.

fordy said:

Gday
This is often a fun one to delve into
So let's rip a few things apart & muddy some more ( if one can understand me being the first hurdle )

The first port of call is what is a irregular bullet ( pills as I call them or the projectile part of a bullet )

So to me it starts with the bullet company we get their standard to start with as they tell us that's how the pill works

Probably the best one that the vast majority of us know is Barnes & the ever so picture perfect mushroom that we all have seen so no need to attach a pic of one those

back to general pills now
But then we hear or have it happen to us but the pill blew up or penciled

Yet many others will come in & go no way I got this result & the better ones show pictures of their results and in many cases we get into this ****ing match & it goes off the track & ultimately we end up arguing about everything else than the irregularities that ultimately lead to a failure

Now I mean this with the utmost respect
Most people go off the good which is only part of the story & I like full stories & until we take the bad into account we will learn nothing as we are all happy in acceptance mode right
I like the good ones but in all reality the bad ones teach us more

The real issue is here ( the bad ones & % numbers aren't factual & is just a talking point for conversation sake ) as it may only be 50% that it shows up of being irregular & yet 50% of those may still give a good result of a fairly good killing efficiency
So now we are down to a 25% failure or are we
No way as now we need to analyse where those 50% irregularities are occurring & more importantly why / where the failure is occurring ( then add the happy with a dead critter people & man alive you now have real issues on that 25% getting found out especially if it's a company as then it's you get what they are happy with and that's a low bar although they will portray it differently )

Now let's break that 25% down further & This is the hard part as now you need numbers of critters & today I even struggle to get enough of them to form a higher probability of a irregular occurrence & ultimately a failure occurring
But what I am extremely lucky in doing is honing in on where a pill will give these irregular results & more likely failure point of seeing these failures occurring in the field


It's not that I'm smart it's far from it it's I'm measuring /recording a lot of things & a couple of my yank mates who I've had the pleasure of entertaining in my home state Tassie soon saw why I hone in on certain angles & resistances as if it passes them you just won't see that so called 25% failure rate

Best example I can give is my 6.5 data I gathered on around 10 pills if I was to shoot the critters like I know & has shown killed better I wouldn't have gathered a better indicator of a pill's capabilities @ those lower impacts & i pretty well guarantee I would then have a shaded view on where things work better down there as I did prior to that particular cull but I had my eyes opened pretty wide on what occurred

But let's get even more anal everything still showed irregular results across those low velocity test from pill to pill & within ea pill itself but also by breaking ea of them down & looking @ the process of the way ea pill was working I could see patterns & simpler version of that still holds somewhat true of soft was the more consistent player @ low velocity impacts but also I found a little more on wet & dry impacts & where the hydraulic system was playing roles in certain brands more than others & some seemed immune to needing fluid so are they the better option to use

Some cases yes others no imo but learn we can so to lessen our own risk of the irregular occurrence

Just think how we have heard the need to stay off bone or hit bone or keep that pill above or below certain velocities ,
Yep depends on one's choice of pill to it's actual good working velocity window & the bandaids we can apply also help to reign in some of the irregular eg cleaning hp to increasing twist rates etc

Just a little to start ticking on & one I'll add some more as we go

Cheers

Click to expand...

WOW!! Just WOW! Why don't you Aussies shoot 300-grain Partitions or A-Frames and be done with it?

1raggedhole said:

WOW!! Just WOW! Why don't you Aussies shoot 300-grain Partitions or A-Frames and be done with it?

Click to expand...

I think that posts like this somewhat highlight what Fordy is trying to get at

Mikecr said:

Call them bullets.
You have bullets, and cases, assembled as cartridges.
Not trying to be a jerk, but to possibly help.

Click to expand...

Gday Mikecr
Not being a jerk & hope I'm not received that way in return
I like the more defined of things but I'm also a aussie & just shorten things up a lot but

Here is where the issue lies with us aussies is I import a fair few different components & our Australian boarder force ( names with held ) have told me on my B709a import form to put projectiles & not bullets as bullets to them are the whole thing
Case powder brass & projectile
& on our import forms they advised me to be specific on what I was importing as a bullet & primer come under the explosive section where brass & projectiles are inert & can be imported by me explosives not as I don't have the proper paperwork for that stuff

I get you guys call them bullets & just putting up my reference so people hopefully understand my calling them pills is the same as your bullets

Not trying to be confrontational just trying to bridge the gap which on my English skills im not smart @ all & only just passed those in school but I try to get by & stutter I do as you just seen above

Cheers

OP Is correct.
I've experienced failures with most bullets at some stage but the better quality bullets fail less often, and to a lesser degree. I prefer bullets with higher SD for serious hunting as they tend to be more consistent in their ability to cope with a wide variety of shot placements.
Magnum and I were referring to buffalo in particular because the bigger, tougher critters are the ones that really test bullet performance, especially when encountering heavy bone structures.
Another animal that challenges bullet choice is camel, where the critter is large with massive bone structure but is otherwise quite soft.

Tagging in. This should be a very interesting thread. Hopefully everyone can stay civil so we can all learn something.

1raggedhole said:

WOW!! Just WOW! Why don't you Aussies shoot 300-grain Partitions or A-Frames and be done with it?

Click to expand...

Oh we have, trust me.
I will tell you the ONLY bullet I trust 100% to work on DG from ANY angle is the Woodleigh, either RNSP or PP.
I use the the 270g PP in my Talkeetna 375H&H and the 300g PP in my 375 Weatherby. I use the 410g RNSP in my 416 Rigby, 500g RNSN in my 450 Rigby and 570g RNSN in my 500 Nitro.
These bullets do exactly what they're supposed to do time after time without failure, as do their solids.

Cheers.

Aussie Hunter Steve said:

In my experience more bullet weight is needed in .375 for buff. Reckon you're on the edge with the 260gr Accubond that I've also used a lot of. I had similar experiences with various 270gr bullets on buff, but once I moved up to 300gr and 350gr the results were most consistent.

Click to expand...

Frangible ?

ButterBean said:

Frangible ?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily frangible, but lacking strength of construction to the point that bullet deformation is so great that their ability to penetrate deeply in a straight line is severely compromised.
Magnum mentioned the reliability of Woodleigh bullets, and in cals like .375 they make an all-game bullet line, plus a heavy duty line, in heavy for caliber weights.

Gday magnum & aussie writer
Keep that going as that's showing the consistent path of using a pill that will kill & eventually get you into trouble vrs a more consistent one which can be weight lacking /structurally designed wrong for that application & to the makeup of how it's made
Take woodleigh how many tests did they do before releasing a pill to market


Something that some companies should take notice of how a great company got its reputation it has but I guess Geoff was in it for the long haul ( woodleigh owner )

Sorry for side track but important imo & one that IT's finding consistency in the way the pill works across various resistances that is my main point of covering bases that may occur in the field due to the variables

Take this gpa pill

It has one advantage over most other hp varieties/styles on the market & specifically in these situations

you'll see why once your number gets called out in the bingo raffle

yet some have this as in the OEP
Which has proven more reliable than this pic below which is another OEP so apples with apples imo ( I've got recovered pills somewhere that I'll see if I can dig up as don't think I have on my phone )


The advantages we aussies well some of us as it's not all overrun everywhere with buff scrubbies camels multiple deer species pigs kangaroo donkeys horses rabbits turbos possums foxes cats goats & no doubt more lol
The ones that are in the situation of having access to some of the many many millions of these critters that in some parts of our country exist in plagues get to see things on a lot quicker base than a lot of others not that we are smarter well i don't know of the other 2 but I'm not

Now both magnum & aussie writter
are all coming from if I'm reading their posts correctly is a consistent base of getting the job done consistently
So back to the title of this thread

So irregular results are just like magnum put up in post 2 yet how many were taken with that pill before it's seen
But I can guarantee that it is there on the very first few buff he took yet even if it was a bangflop /s it will be seen ( not many pills can bangflop a asiatic buff ) just like this one

Which is in all intensive purposes a Magnificent theatre show for all to see but on autopsy it was found to lack penetration which is one of the most vital part of any pills ability to kill & was found out early on results yet easily fixed but never tweaked by that company which is cool as they made the best pill I've ever seen on buff from the learning off what that bangflop pic above pill achieved but more importantly what it didn't

That's the most important part of turning a irregular pill to a consistent pill but one needs to understand what irregular is & where it occurs as if we just look @ a dead critter that's one that raising the bar is a hard one to achieve as you've already reached your goal imo
I'm still learning on how much more is achievable & testing what I can to improve my knowledge as I've seen enough better to know more is achievable & can occur

Now most may think what has this got to do with let's say deer pills as these stupid aussies ( well me as don't know the others ) are talking buff or DG pills
Well it's no different for a deer pill as it's not looking @ the good we already have imo


Cheers