Where does "Long Range" begin

IMO, the more important question for the hunter/shooter is "Where does your long range capability end?"
For hunting game at long range, I like Bryan Litz's WEZ(weapon employment zone) approach to establishing long range shooting/target size/distance…confidence levels. For game hunting, this confidence level should be pretty high(+90%) It's not a definitive answer because environmental factors, primarily wind, cover, and animal movement can radically effect the range that you can make a 'cold-bore' shot. While I have shot game(medium) as far as 1200yards, I consider 1000 yards my general limit, and, my average distance for 70+ game animals( and bunch of predators) is approximately 500 yards. I agree with others that the demands on shooting changes pretty radically once you get much past 600 yards due to conditions, game, and terrain factors. While considered to be quite boring by my buddies(and likely, many in this forum), I have pretty much used the same rifle/cartridge/load over the past 15 years or so….And, test/check my rifle every year on the same hill/rocks at 1000 yards. IMO, knowing your rifle well is 90% of success.
My buddy videoed the point of impact with his spotting scope/camera on one of our rocks used for a pre-hunt check. I couldn't get the video to post but captured the frame for point of impact. You can see the dust coming off the rock at 7 o'clock…..

I think it is very dependent on the persons typical shooting scenario, cartridge (think 22LR vs 30-30 vs 300 win mag), and equipment (iron sights, scope, scope with BDC reticle, scope with dial capabilities)

If your typical hunting scenario is 100-200 yard shots 300 is going to feel like long range. If your typical hunting scenario is 200-300 yard shots 450 is going to feel like long range.

Now given what you referenced: "I would think I could shoot out to 450yds with it?" and "Point blank on a 284win w 150gr bullet is approx 325yds, (along with a 270win 140gr bullet) which I use the definition of +/-3" of zero, dead hold = 6" kill zone"

You might wish to consider the following: The typical chest on a deer is 16-18 inches high. Let's use 16. Since holding on hair is always better than holding on air, lets cut that down to 14". So, that means with your equipment; you could consider +/- 7" by holding just above the bottom of the chest or just under the back line. If you plug in, factory specs for Winchesters 150 grain 284 Win ammo and zero at 325 you should be able to consistently hit out to 380 yards.

The above is just an example and one way for you to think about long range for your set-up. Another way to think about is "I only shoot steel and have 10" plates and I am comfortable with estimating 1/2 a plate high above the target and therefore - what is 10" of drop? Using the scenario above you could probably hit at ~400 yards max with 325 zero

I would also call leupold and ask them the MOA subtension to the top of the picket in the duplex and you could always use that as a holding point and run some calcs from there.

Of course you going to want to confirm and calcs by actually shooting on paper and measuring.

Long range is a relative term. For me anything over 500-600 yards is long range. I feel 100% confident out to those distances because I practice all the time at those distances. Its as far as our local range allows us to shoot. For my buddy in upstate New York long range is anything over 100-150 yards because most of the time that is as far as he can see in the woods he normally hunts. I had him out here for a Mule deer hunt and put him on several exceptional bucks in the 300-400 yard range and he failed miserably, not because he is a bad shot but that was way beyond anything he had ever shot at. He did end up wounding a small buck with his sporter weight rifle and ended up finishing it off with my long range set-up dialed for 412 yards. Practice practice practice, you will find that your range will extend quickly the more you shoot and learn your rifle and it optics. I would think with a 2-8 you should have no problems shooting out to at least 300- 400 yards depending on how good your eyes are.

Long range and Extra Long Range should include the words live or inanimate, as ethical and skill come more into play than "should I" or "can I". I will only talk inanimate in stretching of distances because my live animal distances are and were ethical. I shoot regular competitions with 22LR which are generally limited to 300 and under yards. I have hit 24x24" steel at 500 yard reasonably consistent, as I have never had cooperative weather conditions for tighter groups or my 80plus year old skill. Am dabbling in 6 ARC, 6.5 CM, 300 WM & WSM but area ranges end before a 1000 yards, thus the 22LR challenges the dabble. ELR is equipment, include caliber, and skill limited, to me thus defined. Ethics the only hard facts.

DakotaRingo said:

Long range and Extra Long Range should include the words live or inanimate, as ethical and skill come more into play than "should I" or "can I". I will only talk inanimate in stretching of distances because my live animal distances are and were ethical. I shoot regular competitions with 22LR which are generally limited to 300 and under yards. I have hit 24x24" steel at 500 yard reasonably consistent, as I have never had cooperative weather conditions for tighter groups or my 80plus year old skill. Am dabbling in 6 ARC, 6.5 CM, 300 WM & WSM but area ranges end before a 1000 yards, thus the 22LR challenges the dabble. ELR is equipment, include caliber, and skill limited, to me thus defined. Ethics the only hard facts.

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FYSA!

SOURCE: https://www.longrangehunting.com/help/rules/

I and friends follow the old competition and NRA standards/rules, as we did in the military so many years ago. Their targets were labeled SR, MR and LR - (Short Range, Mid Range and Long Range) Roughly that was 2-300 SR, 5-600 MR, and the 8-1,000 yards LR.

Good work.
Practice with what you can afford. Practice, practice practice.
Take a lot of notes, collect a lot of data. direction, GPS location, wind, humidity, breeze, did you have 8 cups or one cup of coffee, how many sodas with caffeine? Type of cartridge, who made it, and more. Altitude, angle of shot, curvature of the earth. If you can think of it, log it.
Do you reload? If not, save all your brass. I saved for decades, then began to reload. Threw some brass away as the internal, external, and weights were all over the place. Same as if the firing chamber was always a different size.
Reload, take notes, figure out why, make adjustments, only one at a time, your groups will get smaller. Soon you might be putting all your rounds in a hole the size of a 25 cent piece at 1/4 mile.
So why not a half mile? Why not a mile? The present tool, rifle may not be able to, but if long, or extra long distance/range, (ELD or ELR), is your goal, practice, have fun and always be safe.

By the by, shooting ELD is good for us people with bad lungs. It teaches us control over our lungs, nerves, how to monitor and control your heart beat. Aaand, walking to the target to check shots provides the needed exercise.

I usually go to Apple Valley, Ca. for pistols and close range rifle, and near the Yuma Proving Grounds for my ELD/R or just long distance. Miles of flat desert, I can monitor so no motorcycles or 4WD come near the hill that is my backdrop.

DakotaRingo said:

Long range and Extra Long Range should include the words live or inanimate, as ethical and skill come more into play than "should I" or "can I". I will only talk inanimate in stretching of distances because my live animal distances are and were ethical. I shoot regular competitions with 22LR which are generally limited to 300 and under yards. I have hit 24x24" steel at 500 yard reasonably consistent, as I have never had cooperative weather conditions for tighter groups or my 80plus year old skill. Am dabbling in 6 ARC, 6.5 CM, 300 WM & WSM but area ranges end before a 1000 yards, thus the 22LR challenges the dabble. ELR is equipment, include caliber, and skill limited, to me thus defined. Ethics the only hard facts.

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Uhmm, we use 24x24" targets at 1 mile and sometimes 2k (usually a 36x36"), and often up to 1,000 yards, we practice on 1 moa targets. We shoot prairie dogs in the 5-600 yard ranges, sometime much more.

Ethics are not allowed in discussion, as stated above. Like in all sports, each person's skill set is different, and what is not "ethical" or doable for you is not the same for others.

DakotaRingo said:

Long range and Extra Long Range should include the words live or inanimate, as ethical and skill come more into play than "should I" or "can I". I will only talk inanimate in stretching of distances because my live animal distances are and were ethical. I shoot regular competitions with 22LR which are generally limited to 300 and under yards. I have hit 24x24" steel at 500 yard reasonably consistent, as I have never had cooperative weather conditions for tighter groups or my 80plus year old skill. Am dabbling in 6 ARC, 6.5 CM, 300 WM & WSM but area ranges end before a 1000 yards, thus the 22LR challenges the dabble. ELR is equipment, include caliber, and skill limited, to me thus defined. Ethics the only hard facts.

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Have you read the rules here? Rule #1

Taking a class to get some good fundamentals is a good way to start i think. Or if you have someone who can spend a day coaching you. It helped me a lot.

If it's a challenge to your shooting and equipment abilities, it's probably LR for "you".

I think long range is cartridge dependent…I think that at any point you start needing, in order to hit a target, to calculate trajectory, and thus need to make an adjustment out of your weapons original zero…you are in fact shooting long range. That is not just an elevation change, that would be a change to windage as well. So with that being said, it can be as close as 100 yards if you are shooting in a cross wind with a slow, non-aerodynamic bullet. Anytime I have to twist a turret, or hold the wind, that is long range to me.

Mac

dfanonymous said:

It's actually a defined thing. 550-600y for centerfire rifles is long range. That is because that's the point where atmospheric conditions start to play effect on the bullet to a degree where you need to account for it.

Even the Marine Corps regular annual rifle qual ends there at 550y. That's because typically in doctrine, beyond that is where DMs and snipers would then be implemented for the reasons I mentioned.

F class considers 800y the start of "long range."
Opposite of that, PRS will follow the 600y situation more typically but the targets are smaller and there's no spotter shots. You sink or swim.

Edit: "long range" based on these definitions is very much a gear game and an expensive endeavor. I wish there was better news on that front.

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Even at just 1/4 mile the curvature of the earth takes hold, my opinion.
300 miles difference East to West, 100 miles North to South, the POI, Point Of Impact goes from POA, Point Of Aim, to low & right by 10 inches. Way out of kill shot, where the animal will drop in its tracks.
I rezoed my scope the first time. Thought my scope may have been knocked akilter during travel. Then it was 10" high & left. More notes for my shooting logs.

Whatever distance you need to start considering bullet drop and adjusting for elevation. For me using MPBR that's usually beyond 300yds. Or maybe when you have to consider wind drift. I changed to slider sights on my bows and can shoot a bit farther than with the fixed pin sights and definitely with more confidence.