Please help!! (Again) Groups dropped all of a sudden.

I'm a big Vortex fan, but I would never buy a Crossfire for anything bigger than a 22 rimfire. Actually, I've never bought one. Why would you cheap out on your scope, especially for an out-of-state hunt. Trash the Crossfire and get a better scope.

If I hypothetically assume you have an understanding of basic marksmanship fundamentals and the ability to apply them (A lot of people who don't know what they don't know will say yes, but then not be able to articulate Natural point of aim, natural respiratory pause, follow through, muscle relaxation, bone support/steady support, trigger manipulation, etc)

Then, a bipod isn't as easy a support to employ in marksmanship as everybody thinks. Pressure forward vs pressure backwards, feet material and substrate material by which it is fired upon. If you don't shoot the bipod method the same way you will see stringing. You will also see stringing with an inconsistent cheek weld. Applying more or less pressure to the top of the buttstock by your cheek will string the shots.

Then, there is shot group analysis. Bullets typically shoot within a cone of fire, round or triangle shaped groups. A group that can have a straight line drawn through them is shooter error. The rifle/load combo wanted to put them same POI, but the shooter is screwing up and most likely in the two ways aforementioned.

Then, the use of the lead sled is the only definitive problem that anybody can point out having not seen you shoot. If you have other rifles by which you normally print bug holes, that would really narrow things down to an equipment problem. The last guy I instructed had his stuff together, but he didn't realize he was closing his eye just before breaking the shot. Reiterating the follow through principles got him bug holing.

Then, with all that said, there is the scope quality and your understanding on the proper fundamentals to apply with the scope. Like, the understanding that correct parallax isn't what is printed on the dial and when the sight picture is clear. It is whether the reticle moves when you move your head without any input into the gun.

Then, there is the quality/performance potential of the scope and the gun. Some barrels just don't shoot good for a variety of reasons and some reasons that remain unknown. Some scopes just don't track and hold zero solidly. The clearest example of this is when you have other rigs that print great all the time, like clockwork, then you go shoot one that has you in measurements of pie plate. Yeah, it isn't the shooter, its the equipment.

Daggum caffeine is a powerful drug...

BHINES1216 said:

Yes. About a month ago. I shot a few times with the sled once i put a new scope on and then shot with the bipod since thats how I plan to shoot while hunting. Took one shot today with the sled (no weight/no strap) and then the groups dropped.

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I have multiple rests. I still use the original Caldwell Lead Sled primarily for barrel break-ins. There were plenty of misuses when it first came out and perhaps still today, i.e., using excessive weights. The weakest link of the rifle setup (i.e., scope, scope mounting system, stock, etc.) will take a toll. My only issue with the Lead Sled is not having a constant good cheek weld and proper shouldering shot.

I still augment my load development/sight-ins with rest and then make the necessary adjustments/fine-tuning with my actual shooting stances and the bipod I will use for my hunting situations. I am unsure why you went back to shooting with the Lead Sled and expect it to have the same result.

If you are happy with what you have with the bipod, practice, practice with that setup, and make the bipod setup work for you. As others noted, there are plenty of ways to use a bipod to give you advantages. Good luck!

BHINES1216 said:

Shooting a Remington 700 .308 w/ Vortex Crossfire II 6-18 x 44. On my final sight in before a hunting trip to Nebraska, my groups dropped off all of a sudden. Red was my first group on the left bullseye, then after adjusting 1-click right, i shot the green group at the bullseye on the right. Then I shot the two shots in the purple group at the bullseye on the left. Shots were at 100 yards. Waiting about 5-10 min between groups. I am trying to shoot 2" high at 100 yards.

Note: Shot all shells out of the same box. Factory loads. Chronograph was at 2743.

***One more very important note and wouldnt be surprised if this caused my issue... the shot to the right of the right bullseye was shot from and unstrapped/unweighted lead sled. Shot between red and green groups. I immediately ditched the sled. Could this have caused my issue? If so, what would it have done and what can I do from here?

Why would this happen??
View attachment 615030

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Check to make sure that the action screws are tight. If that isn't an issue check the scope out. Wouldn't be the first time a scope failed internally.

Replace that scope fast! As soon as you made an adjustment it went sideways. my bet is the scope.

BHINES1216 said:

***One more very important note and wouldnt be surprised if this caused my issue... the shot to the right of the right bullseye was shot from and unstrapped/unweighted lead sled. Shot between red and green groups. I immediately ditched the sled. Could this have caused my issue? If so, what would it have done and what can I do from here?

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I cant rule it out completely, but it might depend more on your past use of the led sled using this scope. It sounds like you've recently realized the led sled isn't a good option which is correct, the temptation to continue to see what tighter groups you can get with it is a distraction that needs to go away with the sled as well.... you will never shoot from a led sled when hunting, ditch it. I went thru this myself, it now serves as a cleaning station (I like that I can tip the barrel slightly downhill so solvent runs out the muzzle not into the chamber...)

Vortex has a spotty reputation for reliability. If you cant afford to upgrade now, it should be fine as long as the POI doesn't change anymore between groups... all other things being equal (barrel temp, fouling....). Lots of people use Vortex for years without issue, some lose zero for no reason. Ive used two of them with no issues so far, a buddy used one that took a bump in the field and lost zero, permanently... ended his hunt and he didn't have a backup rifle on hand.

BEHINES1216,

As many, including myself, strongly suspect a scope issuse. Very good quality "used" scopes can be bought for far less than a new one.

If in the event that you get "screwed" by the seller….most higher end scopes have a lifetime warranty. The manufacturer will repair them "free of charge"……you're only out shipping/insurance and some aggravation! JMO memtb

Stonyman88 said:

Heard some people say the led sled can't produce good groups, I've never had that issue but stopped using mine, This seems like it's a scope issue, if your just adjusting the scope and it goes that low on the left target, Is it a MOA or MIL adjustment, and how many clicks did you adjust it.? I really don't like the groups, for 100 yds. I would try some other ammo too. Just my opinion , Oh, I have a Rodzilla rest, they work great, Good luck

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don't think anyone argued that at all. read again, most complain that the force is transferred to the firearm entirely instead of being shared with the shooter. hence multiple people saying they break parts of your system.
seen scope ring and rail screws sheared off, scopes busted, some guy mentioned stock breaking too

The ammo and the barrel aren't the issue.

Either your scope is malfunctioning, your ring/base screws weren't properly degreased, thread locked and torqued, your actions screws weren't done the same, or your stock is flexing and putting uneven pressure on your barrel between shots.

All of the gun possibilities should be easily diagnosable. If still shooting erratic then it is the scope, which wouldn't be surprising. Hunting is too expensive to rely on cheap vortex scopes.

And throw that Led Sled in the trash

Your problem is that it's a .308
Everything else is just right…..




Ok.
Jk'ing.
Had to be different