30-06 AI Ladder Results. What would you do?

181 grain Hammer Hunter
Varget powder
.30-06 AI
24" Proof Carbon Sendero 1:9

50.5 -- 2796
50.5 -- 2803
51.0 -- 2791
51.0 -- 2803
51.3 -- 2818
51.3 -- 2846
51.6 -- 2810
51.6 -- 2809
51.9 -- 2854
51.9 -- 2867

I was more concerned with getting velocity reading over accuracy. Looking for suggestions......
Load between 50.5 and 51.0?
Load at 51.6?
Since no pressure signs, do I add more powder and try again as there should be more velocity out of this setup?

Why do velocities go up then down again?

Looks pretty accurate as is, I wouldn't mess with it.

rogerstv said:

I was more concerned with getting velocity reading over accuracy. Looking for suggestions......

Click to expand...

It is a critical mistake to watch velocity as the priority during a test where the idea is to learn where the accuracy and precision are supposed to be.

While I am not saying put the chronograph away, I am saying a low sample test of velocity is informative but not something you can pivot your decision on.

In a search for a basic load development tune, you prioritize the target, and allow yourself a casual glance at the speed data.

Study the difference between a short range test that studies the shift in group centers, versus the classical Audette Ladder, (neither one of which pivots on velocity data).

In a hunting rig context, it can very often be the case where the best performance load doesn't always have the best velocity stats, but it will have "good enough" velocity stats.

The priority is on using the target to guide the load not the chronograph, and the chronograph follows to help sort out the overall component selections and as an indicator of potential workmanship issues.

rogerstv said:

Why do velocities go up then down again?

Click to expand...

Because you are under-sampling and Mother Nature is a Cruel Bitch if she knows you watched too many videos of The Satterlee Method.....

If you test again/enough, you will find the velocity pattern will change. It will just fill out.

ETA: study the links in this recent thread.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/velocity-nodes-and-ladder-tests.369760/#post-3205776

That tells you what not to do, but doesn't help answer your question of what you should do.
I will suggest you select a distance that you care about, namely the longest one you think you will shoot. Select a charge that is roughly 2/3 to 3/4 up your load data to allow for hot/cold weather swings and margin of safety against pressure.

Load up a decent sample and go test. If they meet your needs, you are done. If they don't, then use the time to study the Audette Ladder Method and run your test at that distance.

I would load 10 at 51.6. Run five over the chrono and five for accuracy. If it is accurate enough for you, done! At the max effective range of that bullet (650 yards or so), it probably doesn't matter, as another 100 FPS isn't going to give you much more at distance.

Since you are using a AI 30-06 I suggest using a slower burnrate powder and take advantage of the extra case capacity.The 30-06 case itself in a 30 cal bore gives you a case that works with a wide range of powders.Varget is OK,but your going to run into pressure issues with heavier bullets before you use up your usable case capacity.I'd choose a powder that is going to use near 100% of your case capacity,especially since your shooting a 30-06AI.I'd start at the faster end powders in the 4350's,if you had Reloader powders 19-26,I would go with them.I can get 2900fps with 180gr Nosler with Reloader 26 out of a plain 1-10,24" barrel 30-06.I have one with a 28" barrel that will break into the 3000fps range with that combo and do a little over 2800fps with a 200gr Accubond.Since your not going to find much load data on the 30-06AI,Quick Load data with the stats of your components and rifle would be a big help for you in picking a good powder with the bullet your using,taking advantage of the extra case capacity and keeping within a safe pressure range.Here is some Nosler data for you.You can see how much more you can get out of Reloader 22.There are a few more powders in that burn range that will do a little better.As good as Varget is,don't get stuck on one powder.There are a lot of great powders out there. https://www.nosler.com/30-06-springfield-ackley-improved#E6IH40A

are these fireforming loads?
I would load 5 at 51.3 and 5 at 51.6 and shoot at ~300 yrds and see how the do group wise and both POA/POI and see if the velocity/SD holds.
Also, my AI does better with IMR4350 and VN150

Velocity will normally move around a bit so I wouldn't be concerned with what you are seeing. I've seen that many times before.

As far as how much powder to use? Since I don't have the AI version of the 30-06, I don't know what max velocity you should be looking for with that bullet and barrel length (outside of obvious pressure signs).

Maybe a different approach will help. What is the farthest distance you intend to shoot game with this bullet? Once you know this, what is the minimum impact velocity needed for the bullet to expand at that maximum range? Hammer bullets should be able to tell you what the minimum impact velocity is for expansion on game.

For example, if they say the minimum impact velocity needed is 2000 fps and your maximum hunting range is 400 yards, then you simply determine the minimum starting velocity needed to allow the bullet to impact at least 2000 fps at 400 yards. Any more velocity than that you can achieve within pressure limits is gravy. This can be determined easily with any number of online ballistic calculators.

Once you know the minimum starting velocity you need for the bullet to perform at the maximum range you intend to shoot, you can experiment with different powder charge weights to see where the rifle shoots best. I would work in at least half a grain or larger powder charge increments to test for group size and shoot large sample sizes.

It is viewed as controversial by some but the Hornady Podcast #50, #52, #60 and #121 will give you some useful information. I have tested their seating depth conclusions with large sample sizes in two 30-06s using Barnes 168 TTSXs and have found what they said to be accurate. Good shooting!

To me, I would think there is another accuracy node higher up. Those velocity numbers look a little anemic in a .30-06AI.

I have shot 24" .30-06Spr that ran a 175 OTM or 185 Jugg at the same velocities you are showing. I used H4350 and H4831SC. And 22" .280AI pushing 175 Elites @ 2850, or 26" .280AIs running 175-180s at 2950-2985 w. H1000 and RL23.

WHile groups are good, you might find the same accuracy in the next node up. Personally, I would keep pushing.

I have a 3006AI while velocity is important if the bullet does hit where you aim what difference does it make? You do need vel to make the bullet expand but accuracy is more important

while there are other reasons, One of the main reasons for going with an ackley is more speed. If you're not gonna load it to its full potential why even bother? I'm with lance, go with a slower powder, h4831 comes to mind and keep going up.

I have a plain 30-06 with a 28" barrel.It does about 100fps more than my 24" barreled 30-06's,so if I knock off a 100fps off these velocities,that's close to what I can expect from my 24" barreled 30-06's
These were shot from my 28" using a Magnetospeed chronograph.
180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
63.5gr Reloader 26 3021fps
62.0grs Reloader 22 2997fps
59.0grs Hunter 2923fps
These were shot from my 24" barreled 30-06
180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
65.0grs Magpro 2944fps
63.5grs Reloader 26 2890fps

This is an example of what you can do with the slower burnrate powders with the 180gr class bullets.The Ackley Improved will give you a couple more grains of powder in the case so it's up to you what you do with it.

My fireforming -06 AI loads