.224 62 Hornady 62 gr ELDVT bullet, 7.7 twist .22-250

Prelim results, looking good for rodents.
Accuracy needs to be tuned, about .5 MOA.





Among best for FF, hi vel from 7.7 twist .22-.250 @ 3637 fps, table at bottom is sorted on FF column. Hi vel capability, low drag, light weight.

Accuracy needs to be tuned to equal that of 75 ELDM in my rifles

7.7 twist works but 9 twist in .223 @ 3,000 fps was total failure.

Look at the X-section of the 62 ELDVT, large void, compared to the X-section of the 73 ELDM no void.

My guess is the diff between center of mass & pressure don't fit that good for the Miller method. A Sg of 1.3 should provide adequate stability for reasonable accuracy but my 9 twist .223 failed to group at 100 & no bullet failure, like gray smoke.

.75 MOA up from 200 yard zero on target at 300, nice extended point blank range on small targets.

(I like to use lots of paragraphs)

I just bought the 6.5 version of this bullet for an 8 twist 6.5 SAUM. These bullets have high BC for weight making for flat trajectory. The Hornaday will be used for practice out to 500-600 yards and for varmints. The Hornaday bullet is very nearly the same length, weight, and BC as the Apex Afterburner 102 grain, a copper monometal. If I can get both to shoot well at the same velocity, I'll have a practice load and deer load that shoot nearly the same.

I think Hornaday is on to something. Make a sleek, low weight, low cost, high BC bullet that can be paired with a sleek monometal. For instance, Apex makes a 194 grain 308 bullet that's 1.83 inches long. Hornady could make a 194 grain ELD-VT that's 1.83 inches long with BC similar to the Apex. Both would likely need an 8 twist barrel, as do mine.

less drag, lower FF (form factor) > higher velocities, light weight, FF (form factor = sectional density/G7 BC), reduced drag.

for 62 ELDVT, FF= .177 (SD) / .199 (G7 BC) = .889

BC is a comparative value that combines bullet mass & drag. Reduce mass & decrease drag to enable increased velocity.

The Miller process does not work to good with the ELDVT's. My guess is that bullet OAL falls does not work with the Miller Sg method because the center of mass is more distanced from the center of pressure. My observations were total accuracy failure with 62 ELDVT from 9 twist .223 (Sg 1.33, OAL 1.05) and excellent accuracy with 73 ELDM from 9 twist .223 (Sg 1.68, OAL 1.04). Only OAL .01 inch diff. Like big void (air) in X-section of 62 ELDVT. A calculated Sg = 1.33 for the 62 ELDVT should have indicated good stability but it did not happen.

Sg is "A numerical measure of the bullet's stability, the stability factor Sg, is the ratio of the rigidity of the axis of rotation to the magnitude of the overturning aerodynamic torque." quote, ie center of mass & center of pressure.

The general idea for all this is to decrease bullet sectional density (SD = (bullet mass/7000) / (bullet diameter squared)) while maintaining G7 BC. This measures drag resistance or form factor > FF = SD/BC, or BC = SD/FF

Comparing mono bullets with equal weight ELDVT bullets would result in a much longer ELDVT bullet than the mono bullet. The general idea is to decrease SD while maintaining BC. Hornady does this by making the ELDVT bullet with long ogive & long boat tail & light mass with much void space as shown in my previous post. The Miller process would work with the mono bullet using measured OAL but would not work with the ELDVT because the increased separation of center of mass & center of pressure..

A probable comparison (just guessing) of matched mono & ELDVT bullets able to be loaded with equal accuracy in same rifle, same twist.

A .308, 190 gr. mono bullet SD= (190/7000) / (.308 * .308) = SD = .285

A .308 120 gr. ELDVT bullet SD = (120/7000) / (.308*.308) = SD = .180

Assuming comparable G7 BC of .250 for mono bullet & G7 BC of .205 for ELDVT bullet.

The 190 mono bullet FF = .285 / .250 = 1.14

The 120 ELDVT bullet FF = .180 / .205 = .878

The 120 ELDVT would have less drag. FF = SD/BC, or BC = SD/FF. Much higher velocities with the 120 gr, ELDVT bullet.

Any 120 ELDVT bullet would not work for killing deers and similar bigger animals. Velocities, like in a .300WM would be more than 3,400 fps (big blast) but the 120 ELDVT bullet would make the .308 or 06 into an effective long range varmint rifle at over 3,000 fps having less drag than conventional same weight, 120 gr. bullets but a faster than 10 twist would be needed.

My .02 worth about the 62gr eld-vt in a 20" 7 twist AR 223.

Five powders(4 ball,1 stick) multiple charges and seat depth with each. I have shot guns that pattern better than every load I tried except one, 23.5 benchmark @ 2.335/1.800 bto at 2850 fps. 3/8-1/2. Multiple 4 shot groups. I have had them up to 3050 fps but anything above 2850 open up bigly

I use a dremel to "window" 10 round mag to load them long. OAL of 2.335 is up against the mag well when mag is in but function flawless.

KNOTFERSAIL said:

My .02 worth about the 62gr eld-vt in a 20" 7 twist AR 223.

Five powders(4 ball,1 stick) multiple charges and seat depth with each. I have shot guns that pattern better than every load I tried except one, 23.5 benchmark @ 2.335/1.800 bto at 2850 fps. 3/8-1/2. Multiple 4 shot groups. I have had them up to 3050 fps but anything above 2850 open up bigly

I use a dremel to "window" 10 round mag to load them long. OAL of 2.335 is up against the mag well when mag is in but function flawless.

Click to expand...

pics of a windowed mag, please?

When I get home this evening will post a pic

I shoot a lot so I buy bulk bullets and the 69 gr HPBT from RMR when I got 2000 was only like 14 cents about 5 months ago. I have an 8 twist and and have then dialed in right ot 3000 fps

Hugnot said:

less drag, lower FF (form factor) > higher velocities, light weight, FF (form factor = sectional density/G7 BC), reduced drag.

for 62 ELDVT, FF= .177 (SD) / .199 (G7 BC) = .889

BC is a comparative value that combines bullet mass & drag. Reduce mass & decrease drag to enable increased velocity.

The Miller process does not work to good with the ELDVT's. My guess is that bullet OAL falls does not work with the Miller Sg method because the center of mass is more distanced from the center of pressure. My observations were total accuracy failure with 62 ELDVT from 9 twist .223 (Sg 1.33, OAL 1.05) and excellent accuracy with 73 ELDM from 9 twist .223 (Sg 1.68, OAL 1.04). Only OAL .01 inch diff. Like big void (air) in X-section of 62 ELDVT. A calculated Sg = 1.33 for the 62 ELDVT should have indicated good stability but it did not happen.

Sg is "A numerical measure of the bullet's stability, the stability factor Sg, is the ratio of the rigidity of the axis of rotation to the magnitude of the overturning aerodynamic torque." quote, ie center of mass & center of pressure.

or BC = SD/FF

Comparing mono bullets with equal weight ELDVT bullets would result in a much longer ELDVT bullet than the mono bullet. The general idea is to decrease SD while maintaining BC. Hornady does this by making the ELDVT bullet with long ogive & long boat tail & light mass with much void space as shown in my previous post. The Miller process would work with the mono bullet using measured OAL but would not work with the ELDVT because the increased separation of center of mass & center of pressure..

A probable comparison (just guessing) of matched mono & ELDVT bullets able to be loaded with equal accuracy in same rifle, same twist.

A .308, 190 gr. mono bullet SD= (190/7000) / (.308 * .308) = SD = .285

A .308 120 gr. ELDVT bullet SD = (120/7000) / (.308*.308) = SD = .180

Assuming comparable G7 BC of .250 for mono bullet & G7 BC of .205 for ELDVT bullet.

The 190 mono bullet FF = .285 / .250 = 1.14

The 120 ELDVT bullet FF = .180 / .205 = .878

The 120 ELDVT would have less drag. FF = SD/BC, or BC = SD/FF. Much higher velocities with the 120 gr, ELDVT bullet.

Any 120 ELDVT bullet would not work for killing deers and similar bigger animals. Velocities, like in a .300WM would be more than 3,400 fps (big blast) but the 120 ELDVT bullet would make the .308 or 06 into an effective long range varmint rifle at over 3,000 fps having less drag than conventional same weight, 120 gr. bullets but a faster than 10 twist would be needed.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry I messed this up. But thank you for that explanation.

Thank you for that reply. So, the long 308 bullet won't work. But a 120 grain ELD-VT in 308 would be a good varmint bullet if it shoots well.

This does seem like a good idea to increase BC of varmint weight bullets.

On the 7 twist AR

7 twist is good, OK.

My best guess that the bullet is damaged and/or cartridge bullet seating is damaged upon stripping the round from magazine to chamber.



Upon comparing bullet profiles between the 62 ELDVT & 73 ELDM, the 73 that is intended for .223/AR has a longer bearing surface & shorter ogive. The 73 profile would ensure more secure bullet seating for magazine loading.

The 62 ELDVT has a comparatively large void, like empty space instead of lead core as in the 73 ELDM, surrounding the plastic tip making for a less secure attachment. If the plastic tip was bashed out of line upon the chambering process it might affect accuracy. 62 ogive is much longer than the 73.

So - you might try single loading, like using a SLED. If chamber is 5.56 NATO long seated bullets should fit.

Some time ago when I first got my 8 twist AR, I loaded some 53 VMAX bullets wanting to clear bunches of same mound rodents. Single load worked but thru magazine was bad - did not feed, despite fitting in magazine, terrible situation, bolt action much better. I selected the.224 62 grain HpBt from Mid-South for AR use but can't get them now.

Here's a couple pics, not quite a window

I went to the bottom of the mag with the dremel not knowing where to stop. Hind sight I should have dremeled a little bit then loaded a few rounds at a time in the mag. About half way down the mag is plenty with the dremel on a 10 round mag.

Anywho, you can see I can't go any longer as I'm right up against the lowers mag well @ 2.335

Absolutely no issues feeding or any deformation of any kind in my AR when cycling. I'd like to get a little more fps but at 2850fps and the groups I'm getting, I'll take it and pound on the yotes with'm

Accuracy trumps speed, right?

I see that Hornady has a 174 gr. ELDVT bullet - it might require a 9 twist - Hornady does not have twist info. I was hoping that the .308 ELDVT bullet would be 120-130 grains for 10 twist .308 & .30-06 barrels.

KNOTFERSAIL said:

Here's a couple pics, not quite a window

I went to the bottom of the mag with the dremel not knowing where to stop. Hind sight I should have dremeled a little bit then loaded a few rounds at a time in the mag. About half way down the mag is plenty with the dremel on a 10 round mag.

Anywho, you can see I can't go any longer as I'm right up against the lowers mag well @ 2.335

Absolutely no issues feeding or any deformation of any kind in my AR when cycling. I'd like to get a little more fps but at 2850fps and the groups I'm getting, I'll take it and pound on the yotes with'm

Accuracy trumps speed, right?

Click to expand...

acs mags will get close to those numbers w/o dremeling. i think it's about 2.315?

ARlife4me said:

acs mags will get close to those numbers w/o dremeling. i think it's about 2.315?

Click to expand...

Off the top on my head it's 2.310". I use their stainless 20 rnd mags. I windowed their mags and can seat out to 2.370" in my mag well.