Bullet Choice for Sidearm

Would these be the preferred Buffalo Bore round?


Almost had the Underwood 200gr hardcast plate nose but waited too long and then the site sold out.

sroc112 said:

Would these be the preferred Buffalo Bore round?

Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman 40 S&W Ammo 200 Grain Flat Nose Box of 20

Buffalo Bore loads their ammunition with the highest quality components available to maximize the performance of the ammunition. This ammunition is safe...

www.midwayusa.com

Almost had the Underwood 200gr hardcast plate nose but waited too long and then the site sold out.

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I know that if I were tot'n my 40 for a defense (outdoor) handgun, those would have my interest. But, like all of my other handgun ammo…..I'd be casting my own! memtb

@sroc112,
You asked what is the best bullet.
Are you handloading, or searching for factory ammo?

I've had a run in where I surprised a black bear. No cub. But at being surprised, this one decided to stand it's ground. At a distance of 20-25 yards.
I put a round in front of it with my Walther PPS 9mm.
That left me with 6 rounds left.
Luckily, it let me back out of there.

Since then I still carry a 9mm. But it's either my FN509C, or HK VP9.
Both are loaded differently from my encounter.
I'm shooting a trunjicated bullet now.

You're kind of on a slippery slope with bears.
Being an animal, you don't know how they are going to react to each individual circumstance.

You want a deep penetrating bullet with the 9mm.
On the other hand, the recoil of the 40S&W makes it harder for follow up shots.
The reason that law enforcement has gone away from it.

I don't struggle with the recoil of a 40 vs 9. To me, it's not heavier on recoil, it's just a bit more "snappy". I control the gun well, I'm accurate, and confident with it. Compared to a 9, I'd rather have a little heavier bullet so opt for the 40 here.

G9 are the latest and greatest for sure, but they're expensive! I agree with a previous poster that "solids as fast as you can push them" are the ticket. Hardcast bullets are great for bear defense and if you're loading your own, the cost is way lower. If you're not loading your own, then I agree with the others who posted the Buffalo Bore links.
I'm in black and grizz country, so I'm in the group that that thinks penetration > expansion for 4 legged predators. I also carry a 10mm in the woods > a big bore revolver because of quantity and follow up shots.

sroc112 said:

Would these be the preferred Buffalo Bore round?

Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman 40 S&W Ammo 200 Grain Flat Nose Box of 20

Buffalo Bore loads their ammunition with the highest quality components available to maximize the performance of the ammunition. This ammunition is safe...

www.midwayusa.com

Almost had the Underwood 200gr hardcast plate nose but waited too long and then the site sold out.

Click to expand...

Yes, all of these 40 S&W "bear" loads are 200gr

jpndave said:

You want flat point solids as heavy and fast as your gun will allow. Buffalo Bore, Underwood or Federal now has a line. I carry the Federal 9mm 147gr in my P365 in the field. I have the Underwood as well. Locally black bear is a possiblity but a big cat is more likely the last while. In Grizzly country I'd rethink a bit. The P365 is my daily carry and I'm most comfortable with it. I have seriously considered getting a 10mm.

https://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/premium-handgun-hunting/solid-core/11-P40SHC1.html

40 S&W OUTDOORSMAN Std Pressure Low Flash Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

40 S&W OUTDOORSMAN Std Pressure Low Flash Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

40 S&W 200gr. Flat Nose Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo

Underwood Ammo offers the most comprehensive and innovative Underwood Ammo™ Subsonic Handgun Ammo for personal defense & hunting. Shop now .40 S&W Lead ammo with Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast.

underwoodammo.com

A buddy of mine had a Black Bear sow (no cub) try to climb his tree stand during the archery hunt in Idaho. Pretty much emptied his 10mm in her and it still took a bit to shut things down. They are not "easy" to kill. To actually stop one right now it takes a cns hit with a handgun. Flat point solids penetrate deep while crushing and breaking things on the way through.

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You want heavy, flat nose bullets that drive deep and crush/smash their way through. To stop a bear it's about hitting something CNS. You might kill it other ways but the bear won't realize it's dead before possibly making a mess of you. There isn't that much difference in diameter between 9mm/40/45/whatever as long as they drive deep. I'd rather have my Marlin 45/70 if the need arose but that's not practical to carry. So, with the above (deep penetration/flat nose) met, priorities become - immediate access, accurate placement, fast follow up, reliability and more bullets. I have a 44 Mag that is certainly more powerful than my 9mm P365 but in a stressful situation I can draw and fire 13 rounds accurately close in under stress faster than I'd get 6 off in the 44. Some of that is the platform but more importantly I have a LOT more rounds and practice with the little P365. My 18rd P226 would be even better if carried correctly and probably better still would be a 10mm Glock or P320. But now we're getting heavier and more bulky to carry.

Some good info here:

jpndave said:

Yes, all of these 40 S&W "bear" loads are 200gr



You want heavy, flat nose bullets that drive deep and crush/smash their way through. To stop a bear it's about hitting something CNS. You might kill it other ways but the bear won't realize it's dead before possibly making a mess of you. There isn't that much difference in diameter between 9mm/40/45/whatever as long as they drive deep. I'd rather have my Marlin 45/70 if the need arose but that's not practical to carry. So, with the above (deep penetration/flat nose) met, priorities become - immediate access, accurate placement, fast follow up, reliability and more bullets. I have a 44 Mag that is certainly more powerful than my 9mm P365 but in a stressful situation I can draw and fire 13 rounds accurately close in under stress faster than I'd get 6 off in the 44. Some of that is the platform but more importantly I have a LOT more rounds and practice with the little P365. My 18rd P226 would be even better if carried correctly and probably better still would be a 10mm Glock or P320. But now we're getting heavier and more bulky to carry.

Some good info here:

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

www.buffalobore.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol

Two weeks ago, veteran outfitter Phil Shoemaker was guiding two fishing clients in the Alaska bush when the party came face to face with an enraged grizzly. Shoemaker, armed only with a 9mm semi-auto pistol, defended his clients and himself. Here’s his account …

www.americanhunter.org

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I have a slightly different take when considering "any" bullet size/diameter comparison on potential lethality!

Rather than just looking at or saying 9mm vs. 40 or 40 vs. 44, or .44 vs 45, I look at % increase in frontal area…..which after all, is the "potential" hole diameter in/through the animal.

Making a few assumptions, that….all of the bullets offer the same metplat % of bullet diameter and all bullets have same/very similar sectional densities.

For ease of the math……I'll simplify by using the actual bullet diameter. Bear with me……this is a bit tedious!

9 mm vs 40 cal. - the 40 offers 29.8% greater frontal area

40 cal. vs .44 cal. - the 44 (.429") offers 13.1% greater frontal

44 cal vs 45 cal. - the 45 offers 9.54% greater frontal

From the 9mm to the 45 ……the difference is 55%! That's a substantial difference. For myself, there's no question!

If someone wants a smaller framed/lighter semi-auto the 40 cal……IMO, stands "head and shoulders" above the 9m. The 40 is a bit larger with a bit more recoil…..but the gain is substantial! Again …..JMO memtb


Addendum: I hope that my math is fairly accurate!

I now cannot find Buffalo Bore or Underwood hardcast 200gr in stock anywhere. Had both in my cart from 2 different sites, but now both sold out.

Anyone have an online retailer showing in stock? Must be able to ship to NJ.

Ammoseek is a good place to start

Wait for the Buffalo bore outdoorsman to come back in stock, order 4 boxes, don't worry about it again. (Run a full box through your gun to make sure you don't have any issues with cycling. 3 remaining boxes gives you a few mags and change, with spare enough to test in a second gun as needed).

I carry the 9mm version in my p365 and my CZP10F. Shoots to the same POA as my 147gr gold dot and my 124gr fmj (within reason) and cycles fine in both guns. I had planned to step into a 10mm, but on a black bear I really don't think it will make much of a difference. Mag dump into the general head area and you'll likely break something important, regardless of caliber. Just carry whatever you shoot best, cause hits on target with a small caliber mean a lot more than misses with a big one.

Its a 40 not a 10mm. I would load 155 to 165 gr for Black Bear defense. I would definitely load 155 LSWC if I knew my gun cycled them flawlessly.

These are good options:

Check stock frequently on this site

Hard cast lead, like was said, Buffalo Bore

Laguna Freak said:

Its a 40 not a 10mm. I would load 155 to 165 gr for Black Bear defense. I would definitely load 155 LSWC if I knew my gun cycled them flawlessly.

These are good options:

Check stock frequently on this site

40 Caliber Cast Bullets - Stateline Bullets

Shop from our inventory for various 40 Caliber, 40 S&W, 10MM, Hard Lead Cast Bullets for reloading. These lead bullets are used for reloading.

statelinebullets.com

.40 S&W/10mm 165 Gr. TCG

Bayou Bullets is a leader in premium coated cast bullets to top competition shooters and discriminating reloaders. We use a unique heat-set "HI-TEK Supercoat" manufactured by J&M Specialized Products P/L in Australia.

bayoubullets.net

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Why not the 180's?