55gr vs 77gr 5.56

snox801 said:

You are shooting the wrong two hole bullets. I have killed a pile of hogs and I can think of lots of better bullets than a varmit bullet. Any mono would be better. Fmj suck but any mono hunting bullet or my favorite the 62gr partition is money. But no way would I trade the payload of a 6.5 Grendel for a .223.

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I don't want 2 holes in the first place. We have found that a bullet that dumps all of its energy into the vitals of a hog does better than a pass thru. 2nd my rifle is set up to shoot the 77gr bthp bullets into little groups with ammo that's less than half the cost of Grendel ammo.

We are not "hunting" hogs we are trying to kill an invasive pest and do so as cheap and effectively as possible.

Could a Grendel be better than a 77gr or 62gr 5.56..... yes it could be if hand loaded with a monolithic bullet to get as much speed as possible. But our comparison was done with readily available factory ammo. The best Grendel ammo we found was a $45 a box barnes offering in a 115gr tactx at 2700fps from a 20" bolt gun.

But a 16" Grendel with a 123SST is anemic at best. 2400fps doesn't get me out of the truck.

DUCKMAN11 said:

I don't want 2 holes in the first place. We have found that a bullet that dumps all of its energy into the vitals of a hog does better than a pass thru. 2nd my rifle is set up to shoot the 77gr bthp bullets into little groups with ammo that's less than half the cost of Grendel ammo.

We are not "hunting" hogs we are trying to kill an invasive pest and do so as cheap and effectively as possible.

Could a Grendel be better than a 77gr or 62gr 5.56..... yes it could be if hand loaded with a monolithic bullet to get as much speed as possible. But our comparison was done with readily available factory ammo. The best Grendel ammo we found was a $45 a box barnes offering in a 115gr tactx at 2700fps from a 20" bolt gun.

But a 16" Grendel with a 123SST is anemic at best. 2400fps doesn't get me out of the truck.

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They are a bit soft from the factory. But I've found the opposite of you. Two holes always seem to do better. If you are just removing pests. A hole all the way through is much better than a varmit round. Heck deer have run off with those if hit in the shoulder.

Do .223 work yep, cheaper yep. But are they better than a 6.5 grendel. Nope not even close. I ran my .223 for many years but it's not even in the same ballpark as a 6.5 Grendel for putting down hogs. All measurable data suggests than. Energy and speed. It simply has more behind it factory or not.

snox801 said:

They are a bit soft from the factory. But I've found the opposite of you. Two holes always seem to do better. If you are just removing pests. A hole all the way through is much better than a varmit round. Heck deer have run off with those if hit in the shoulder.

Do .223 work yep, cheaper yep. But are they better than a 6.5 grendel. Nope not even close. I ran my .223 for many years but it's not even in the same ballpark as a 6.5 Grendel for putting down hogs. All measurable data suggests than. Energy and speed. It simply has more behind it factory or not.

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2001 55gr 22-250 bolt gun = quick kills

2004 110gr 300blk = no range but quick kills inside 125yds

2006 123gr 6.5 Grendel= broken bolts and iffy performance.

2009 125gr 7.62x39 = typical FMJ performance of awful

2013 55gr 5.56= typical FMJ performance of awful but better than x39 because of the velocity

2017 110-130gr 6.5 Grendel = not enough speed to do anything that made it worth paying $40 a box

2020 77gr 5.56 = 2725fps + $13 to load a 20rd magazine + not any worse performance than 6.5 Grendel + much more ammo available.

I'm just going off what I've been doing to kill feral hogs from Kilgore TX to Lubbock TX for the last 20+ years.

Ymmv

DUCKMAN11 said:

2001 55gr 22-250 bolt gun = quick kills

2004 110gr 300blk = no range but quick kills inside 125yds

2006 123gr 6.5 Grendel= broken bolts and iffy performance.

2009 125gr 7.62x39 = typical FMJ performance of awful

2013 55gr 5.56= typical FMJ performance of awful but better than x39 because of the velocity

2017 110-130gr 6.5 Grendel = not enough speed to do anything that made it worth paying $40 a box

2020 77gr 5.56 = 2725fps + $13 to load a 20rd magazine + not any worse performance than 6.5 Grendel + much more ammo available.

I'm just going off what I've been doing to kill feral hogs from Kilgore TX to Lubbock TX for the last 20+ years.

Ymmv

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That's fine and it works for you. But those are really just a small sample size with lots of other variables. I've killed piles of hogs for just about as many years. And as stated started with a .223 it now the last one I reach for. Started with the .223 moved to .458 socom, then to .300blk with 100gr projectiles. Then to the 6.5 Grendel about 5 years ago. I can say that if average out for shot placement and how fast they expired the Grendel is still the king. The socom of course flattens them but has the trajectory of a rainbow.
Sure you can say cost per kill may go to the .223, but it certainly will not kill better than a 6.5 Grendel. The math behind it just doesn't work. Less bullet mass and less energy.
And as we all know not every shot can or will be a good shot. So the 6.5 gives a much larger margin of error.
Sure you can save a few bucks by using .223 for hogs. Or you could not drink that next beer, smoke the next cigarette, not go to the movies. You could save more money driving a car to work instead of a truck. Fact is we all have hobbies we waste our money on. Shooting is one that is expensive so for some saving a few bucks on ammo is a choice they make. That works for them and me. But that doesn't change the fact it is not a better round for pigs.

.223 77 gr factory loaded 2750fps 1293ftlbs energy.

Range from cheap bullets at $21 a box to $40 a box

6.5 Grendel 110gr factory ammo
2756fps 1854ftlbs $25-60 a box

Now to even be more far I took the slowest cheapest 6.5 I could find for my speed and data. And the best I could find with a quick search for the .223 77 otm Berger.

So if cost is a factor sure .223 works and surprisingly well. But the 6.5 Grendel is vastly better. Will a Prius get you to and from work. Yep but why drive that when you can drive a mustang.

snox801 said:

.223 77 gr factory loaded 2750fps 1293ftlbs energy.

Range from cheap bullets at $21 a box to $40 a box

6.5 Grendel 110gr factory ammo
2756fps 1854ftlbs $25-60 a box

Now to even be more far I took the slowest cheapest 6.5 I could find for my speed and data. And the best I could find with a quick search for the .223 77 otm Berger.

So if cost is a factor sure .223 works and surprisingly well. But the 6.5 Grendel is vastly better. Will a Prius get you to and from work. Yep but why drive that when you can drive a mustang.

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I get what you are saying. And if I had to chose between 1 round of Grendel or 1 round of 77gr 5.56 to make 1 shot on a hog to put meat in the freezer AND head shots weren't an option...... yes the Grendel gives you a higher margin of error.

But why spend $2 on buzzard food when I can do the same thing for 65 cents? I'm not going to say that I don't like killing hogs or that I don't like shooting my bigger and more capable rifles at hogs. But when your camp could shoot a dozen hogs every weekend and not put a dent in them, you kinda start looking at the "long game". How can I kill as many hogs as possible for the least amount of money possible. It's not about stacking up a pile for a photo..... 90% of the reason I shoot a pig is because of how they will destroy an already fragile west Texas ecosystem. The other 10% is because the little ones taste good and bullet testing. I shoot pigs so that everything from deer down to horny toads have a better chance of thriving.

One of my larger rifles like my 300prc is batting dang near 1000 on hogs.... but why spend $4 on a cartridge when I can do it for 65 cents?

Why spend money on fuel and insurance and tires on a mustang to drive to a job that you hate and don't want to be doing in the first place when that crapbox Prius will do it for half the cost?

Think like a government hunter who gets paid by number of animals killed THEN take the payment aspect out of the equation.

I will put it to you like this........ we have seriously looked into poison but there isn't enough good data for me to put those types of chemicals into our ecosystem.

As much as they are a great target of opportunity and good training aids for young or novice hunters.... if I could flip a switch and make every hog within 50mi of our place dissappear I would do it in a heartbeat.

snox801 said:

.223 77 gr factory loaded 2750fps 1293ftlbs energy.

Range from cheap bullets at $21 a box to $40 a box

6.5 Grendel 110gr factory ammo
2756fps 1854ftlbs $25-60 a box

Now to even be more far I took the slowest cheapest 6.5 I could find for my speed and data. And the best I could find with a quick search for the .223 77 otm Berger.

So if cost is a factor sure .223 works and surprisingly well. But the 6.5 Grendel is vastly better. Will a Prius get you to and from work. Yep but why drive that when you can drive a mustang.

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That was precisely my logic when I bought my Mustang... LOL

Not to totally hijack the thread though.... I bought my 6.5 Grendel AR specifically to hunt with. I love my 223 AR but mostly for small varmints and cheap target practice... The Grendel is the best compromise in recoil and weight between 223 and 308 that I could find for an AR platform and I handload so ammo cost is not really that significant.

I I have much better success with 64 grain, bonded soft points and 75-77 grain bullets for quick kills on hogs. They absolutely hammer them

These work great too and won't break the bank for hand loaders.

Here ya go fellas, I traded into a pile of the factory Nosler ammo and then bought 500 bullets for later. I built a 18" 223 Wylde 7 twist 3 groove AR especially to shoot these puppies. I haven't had the chance to hunt pigs with it yet.

Nosler 64gr Bonded Solid Based blem bullets

I think Bill Wilson did a great job in developing the 300 Ham'r specifically for pigs, he recommends the 130 Speer soft point at 2500 (Wilson factory load). I built one with a Wilson 18" barrel 1-15 twist, haven't had a chance to hunt with it yet so no personal experience but at the range I found it very accurate for what it is. I have used a 6.5 Grendel which I'm selling the barrel and all of my Grendel components and dies, don't trust it anymore after two deer ran off good neck shots at close range 50-75 yards head on, should have broke the spine but I don't think it made it that far. Hornady Black 123 is what I used. Never got around to loading anything for it.

osok-1k said:

I think Bill Wilson did a great job in developing the 300 Ham'r specifically for pigs, he recommends the 130 Speer soft point at 2500 (Wilson factory load). I built one with a Wilson 18" barrel 1-15 twist, haven't had a chance to hunt with it yet so no personal experience but at the range I found it very accurate for what it is. I have used a 6.5 Grendel which I'm selling the barrel and all of my Grendel components and dies, don't trust it anymore after two deer ran off good neck shots at close range 50-75 yards head on, should have broke the spine but I don't think it made it that far. Hornady Black 123 is what I used. Never got around to loading anything for it.

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That's one problem with neck shots. Don't think that was bullet selection. The 300 hmr. Is a great round for sure. But you are never gonna reach out like you can with a Grendel or any other necked down bullet. Seems it would be better to find different ammo if you think that was the issue.

osok-1k said:

I think Bill Wilson did a great job in developing the 300 Ham'r specifically for pigs, he recommends the 130 Speer soft point at 2500 (Wilson factory load). I built one with a Wilson 18" barrel 1-15 twist, haven't had a chance to hunt with it yet so no personal experience but at the range I found it very accurate for what it is. I have used a 6.5 Grendel which I'm selling the barrel and all of my Grendel components and dies, don't trust it anymore after two deer ran off good neck shots at close range 50-75 yards head on, should have broke the spine but I don't think it made it that far. Hornady Black 123 is what I used. Never got around to loading anything for it.

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Zen archery just got a 300 if I remember and he will have a great test I'm sure.

I don't like it when folks diverge from the original question which I did, ,please accept my humble apology. As to the 223 bullet question, I would consider the heaviest bullet your twist rate will support, a controlled expansion design such as Darryle recommended in his contribution would be an excellent choice.