Eradicate the Wolf???!

Winefly said:

Diamondback,

The wolves and Grizzly are nothing but window dressings in the environment to make us feel good. If they were taken out of the environment, it wouldn't cause the world to end or apocalypse! We can agree to disagree. "Hunters should want diversity" So do you know that the American Whitetail was almost eradicated out of the entire USA early 1900's and we brought them back also. They are domesticated and know when it is deer season every year! You have a liberal agenda to save the world mindset, but it does not work that way man. Man is the Apex Predator for a reason. This is nothing more than modern day Zoo for liberal $$$,$$$ programs for tourism. These are abominations released to make Americans feel good like it is needed. It is the modern day Affirmative Action - done in the Animal Kingdom by MAN! It wastes my Federal tax dollar and generates $$$,$$$,$$$ for liberal utopians. You might as well give your house to the cockroaches and rats if you believe what you are selling.

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Winefly, It is my right to hunt and kill what I so desire. To harvest fat deer and put meat in the freezer.

Go ahead on come on a hunting forum and champion the wolves all you want. But they get killed now if they stray off the reservation. I couldn't agree more that people keep their pets and live stock safe from a wolf species introduced in by man as an abomination off liberal agendas bent on just playing God and impacting other peoples lives and livestock income - brutalizing people's pets.

Man is and always will be the Apex Predator. It is my right to legally hunt. It is also my legal right and not your place to criticize my legal freedoms Bro. I can exercise or not exercise my legal freedoms. This is America.

I'm also only allowed to kill one elk a year wolve May kill 100 elk

Where I am in NW MT we have always had wolves and bears (the G kind). We were seeing more and more wolves before the actual reintroduction efforts in Yellowstone. There were lots of rumors about where the wolves were coming from. People raising wolf dog cross animals and turning them loose, FWP catching wolves in Canada and smuggling them into MT and turning them loose and feeding them road kills to keep them from migrating back north. I bought into a lot of the crap, I did not want to see the wolves coming in. I still don't want the wolves, but the fact is we have them. Whether you want to believe all the black helicopter crap about how they got here or not is really inconsequential.

I never saw a wolf in MT from the early 1900's before they were eradicated, but I have seen pics and they look the same as the wolf we have here now. If the wolves we have now are 50% bigger that is a leap of faith that I can't take. Cameras that took the pics back at the turn of the century were not wide angle lenses with the hunter behind the animal making the animal look huge. It is the same animal today as it was yesterday.

So all that stuff aside, they are here and we have to live with them. All the hand wringing about what, how, and why is a waste of energy and just gets useless emotions into the discussion. We have seen our best moose hunting in MT diminish greatly, elk herds around Yellowstone at a fraction of what they were. The moose appear to be coming back. Deer numbers looking better and in many areas the elk are out of control even though there are wolves in the area. The problem with access to game animals is not because of the wolf, its because public land access is a fraction of what it used to be and much of the best elk country is now owned by people who will not allow the public to hunt. If you have a fat enough wallet you can shoot a monster bull in MT and the wolves aren't charging admission.

I like the spirited discussion, heck I stir the pot. But this idea that we could just shoot them all if only there was an open season like we have for coyotes is a futile thought. They are not going away. It would take the same governmental effort that it took the 1st time using poison. It looks like the wolf population in MT is staying relatively steady. The wolves are reintroducing them selves into all the States out west and I don't think they can be stopped.

I can say what I have learned about hunting elk with wolves is the elk no longer stay in a given area for long. The elk have become much more nomadic which makes it tougher to figure out where they are.

I have one wolf and have missed two other opportunities to take them. I'll kill everyone that I can. So far I am one for 4 years, I think I am making a difference. It was a female after all.

Agree with TRHall. Yes, my "on the dirt" reference is somewhat dated, however, in 2011 I was hunting Elk with a well-known Outfitter in the NW corner of Wyoming — just outside of Yellowstone. The Outfitter had recently come upon 23 dead elk cows & calves. Some had their uteruses eaten, others just tongues, others weren't eaten at all; just killed for fun. We saw (sometimes all too close) grizzlies every day. The moose population in Yellowstone was deemed "undecoverable" at that time. In the summer of 2017, I took my family through Yellowstone. We did not see a single moose.
I spoke with a friend/guide in Oregon this year who talked to a trucker hauling a trailer full of wolves.
The problem is in the definition of the word "management". The environmentalists manage "up ", the hunter and ranchers manage "down". The original wolf which one inhabited the west is gone. What is now being "managed" is the Canadian Timber Wolf; a different machine. It's a mess. I just love it when the Game Commission puts a low quota on the wolf, then shoots them out of a helicopter by the scores.
... and don't get me started on the Grizzly! LOL !!!!
... but I could be wrong

Hey Diamondback, you keep spouting off about "playing God" with the re-introduction of wolves. What exactly was going on when they were **** near exterminated? Playing God perhaps? mtmuley

Here in Canada we have been managing wolves for a long time.

Maybe the bipartisan system south of the 49th gives way to a binary mindset?

When people yell 'kill all the wolves', other people yell 'save all the wolves'.

Amongst all the yelling, there isn't a lot of room for scientific discussion.

As @HARPERC and @Crockett12 have illucidated, there is a lot more peripheral to this issue than meets the eye. Wake up, stop letting environmentalists play your emotions like a fiddle.

Haha. Up here we carry on trapping the wolf. Unfortunately fur prices have not kept up to inflation which has lead to 'incentives' - you know like we used to have for crows and squirrels.

Am I anti wolf because I participate in hunting and trapping of wolves?

Am I pro wolf because I believe they have a place in the ecosystem?

Both are stupid questions, because nobody cares what the answer is, myself included.

Like I said before if things didn't go extinct we would still have dinosaurs man had no part in there extinction either just part of evolution on an up note just think of the weapons we would probably have if dinosaurs were still here they would have plenty of Anti gunners to eat to lol

mtmuley said:

Hey Diamondback, you keep spouting off about "playing God" with the re-introduction of wolves. What exactly was going on when they were **** near exterminated? Playing God perhaps? mtmuley

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God can be very convenient. Just ask the Taliban and ISIS about it.

I grew up in cattle country helping on a cattle ranch. I remember staying up during calving season trying to keep the coyotes away. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if you added wolf to the equation. It's silly to me that people romanticize predators like they do. When you see a $500 bill (baby cow) half eaten by a coyote your love will dissipate quickly. I for one am happy to knock down the predators to keep the populations low.

...."If you put your beagle in a blender and looked at it's DNA you couldn't tell it from a wolf, your dog-genetically speaking-is a wolf" Ed Bangs USFWS Wolf Recovery Director for Montana and Idaho.

That was the science.

"I mean, two monkey's with a pick up truck, and a case of beer could have reintroduced wolves to the Northern Rockies". Also Ed Bangs

That was the extent of the economic concern.

"yoteslayer" I am with you on that didn't mean to attack you personally but there is much wastage & those predators only leave a carcass if under duress. Many will return for days/weeks depending on external pressures. I too am demonised for my lifestyle but wanting to kill all wolves-"competition" will not help OUR FIGHT AGAINST ANTIs
Balance is always going to be a tough middle

I think Ed Bangs needs a new job....and a firmer grounding in genetics...but that is just me...

Eradication programs only work if you adopt a scorched earth policy and are willing to accept a 70 % collateral damage rate...bullets have a minimal collateral damage effect..a raptor may injest some lead which could lead to mortality....Poison is come one come all...and has a significant collateral effect...I have been on operations were poison was used and every time animals other than the target was killed and these were limited operations...scale it up to a state....well you do the numbers...and because people are both inquisitive and stupid...I will give you a 100% assurance that we will have multiple deaths and inuries..think a wolf or coyote kill bowser or fiffy goes over well....let's try a government sponsored eradication program that uses poison...just the thought will have Law firms across the country go to sleep with visions of Brinks truck dancing in their heads...

I really recommend that before you call..for mass eradication programs...using poisons...do your research....

Diamondback said:

Winefly, It is my right to hunt and kill what I so desire. To harvest fat deer and slay a wolf if it dare challenges me for my kill or dare to growl at me. Asserting my dominance in nature! Alpha!

Go ahead on come on a hunting forum and champion the wolves all you want. But they get killed now if they stray off the reservation. I couldn't agree more that people keep their pets and live stock safe from a rogue wolf species introduced in by man as an abomination off do gooder liberal agendas bent on just playing God and impacting other peoples lives and livestock income - brutalizing people's pets.

Man is and always will be the Apex Predator. The wolf will dance and die in my rifle sights if I want to put him on my hit list of animals to harvest at my leisure. It is my right to do so also - legally. The Grizzly days are numbered as well and eventually tags will be issued to harvest him. If I feel like it, I can legally hunt both species now and not lose any sleep man. I also eat at Burger King and shop at Walmart too every now and then for chicken like the rest of the American masses so hate on me for that too. It is also my legal right and not your place to criticize my legal freedoms Bro.

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Now you're talking about your legal right to hunt them?? I don't dispute that as long as it's legal you were talking about eradicating them and the grizzly because you don't think they belong
keep on page.

There are ways to poison them without killing all that come in contact you can buy it from amazon or you local super market only kills Canines so would be cyotes and foxes to but in the areas where wolves are prevalent they have been killed off by the wolves anyway a few wolves might be fine especially if they were like the ones we had but there are way to many I'm not sure what good wolves are at least with man you can control the numbers he takes on the off season I injoy seeing elk and deer I take pictures ext but now with much fewer game you hardly ever see them they stay hidden because of the wolves and wolves are very wary so you don't see them either so what good are they they eat our game that a lot of people rely on and you never see them hmm sound like something we don't need