Help chosing an Elk Cartridge.

John Spadaro said:

A Bartlien 24" featherweight barrel is as low as 2lbs. The 24" Proof Carbon Sendero is 3 lbs. but if you compare the Proof to a Steel Sendero it is about half the weight.

The difference in weight between a Fierce with a Carbon barrel vs Steel is insignificant.

Click to expand...

Featherweight wasn't mentioned in the post I replied to.

In fact, you implied otherwise here.

"This should allow shooting at the range but is not as light as all steel."

I don't know of anyone shooting featherweights in any sort of competition or even for plinking at the range. They are made only for ultra light hunting rifles.

John Spadaro said:

I already have the .223 for practice. I suspect that some combination of lighter bullet and reduced powder charge will produce a trajectory similar to the full power hunting round.

Click to expand...

It may produce a similar trajectory to around 300 yards. Beyond that it is not possible to duplicate a longer heavier higher bc bullet's trajectory with a lighter one that is traveling slow enough to yield significant recoil benefits.

Your next post may want to run along the lines of...300 yrds is all I want to practice for anyway...

To that I say limit your practical hunting range to 2/3's of what you practice at. So if you want to harvest an elk at 600 you better be really good with the same rifle and load at 900.

Will you be as calm and precise when you see a trophy elk in your scope instead of a target?

With a perfect shot elk will die fairly quickly with a fairly mild cartridge. With a less than perfect shot, more cartridge makes a world of difference.

I've seen elk mortally wounded and show no sign of being hit — not even a flinch. These elk can wander off and die and have the shooter believe they missed completely. I would rather knock an elk on its *** than hope it dies soon.

I've known of people hunting elk with a .243 or a .25-06. These people even occasionally killed elk. Would I use such a cartridge on elk — no. I have few opportunities to hunt elk and want to be sure I have enough gun for whatever opportunity I have at the elk I want even if the shot is not "ideal". If I had lots of time to hunt elk I might be willing to go small. I don't so I won't. If I was to reach in my safe for a rifle for strictly under 400 yard elk, it would be my Sako 85 stainless in .375 H&H or possibly my Weatherby Alaskan in .300 Weatherby. I know either of these will put an elk down quickly even if I was not presented with a perfect shot opportunity.

Light rifles that "pack a punch" are extremely difficult to shoot well. I have ONE rifle that is difficult for anyone to shoot well. It's a .270 WSM LIGHT mountain rifle without a brake. I would rather take my .338-.378 Weatherby mag to the shooting bench than that .270 WSM. I strongly suggest you not go extremely light on any rifle of .270 Win power or more. I will go even further and suggest you go as heavy as you can comfortably carry UNLESS you will be doing serious mountain climbing with it. Heavy rifles are more difficult to carry but much easier to shoot well. I would rather carry a rifle that shoots well than try to shoot a rifle that carries well.

As you want to be able to find factory ammunition to fit, cross off the .280AI since every few stores carry ammunition to fit it.

My suggestions to fit most of what you want: 7 MM Rem, 30-06, .270 WSM, .300 WSM, .270 Win, and way down on my list, the .308.

Wind Gypsy said:

Within 400 yards, 7mm08 or 308. Lite recoil and I doubt you would shoot any better with magnums at that distance. 270 is an interesting choice but I'd rather not lock myself into the caliber with the worst bullet options.

A lightweight 300wsm or 270wsm for that matter is not enjoyable (comparatively) to shoot at the range without a muzzle device to reduce recoil.

Click to expand...

270 worst bullet options? where do you guys get this? The 270 has ben around for 30+ years longer than most all the ones you claim to be so much better, and yes they are good. But the 270 is still one of the top sellers in rifles, ammo and reloading supplies. There are plenty of good bullets from all the manufactures, yes the may not have as many with a supper high bc, but plenty good to run with any out there. Has ben doing it for 93 years, still going strong just like it's dad the 30-06. The 30-06 and 270 have ben in the field for a long time, both are tried, trued, and proven, like them or hate them they both have ben and will continue to get the job done just as good as any other.

35 Whelen said:

270 worst bullet options? where do you guys get this? The 270 has ben around for 30+ years longer than most all the ones you claim to be so much better, and yes they are good. But the 270 is still one of the top sellers in rifles, ammo and reloading supplies. There are plenty of good bullets from all the manufactures, yes the may not have as many with a supper high bc, but plenty good to run with any out there. Has ben doing it for 93 years, still going strong just like it's dad the 30-06. The 30-06 and 270 have ben in the field for a long time, both are tried, trued, and proven, like them or hate them they both have ben and will continue to get the job done just as good as any other.

Click to expand...

There are far fewer choices of bullets available for the .270 than just about any of the common calibers.

More and more of the boutique bullet makers are finally giving the .270 attention but it's simply true that the choices are much more limited.

WildRose said:

There are far fewer choices of bullets available for the .270 than just about any of the common calibers.

More and more of the boutique bullet makers are finally giving the .270 attention but it's simply true that the choices are much more limited.

Click to expand...

This is true. There used to be a couple options for fast twist barrels but they died. I am pushing the 145 eldx at over 3000 fps to see what it can do...but there is no really high bc bullets readily available.

More info here than I've seen in a long time... Probably gonna get the book

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.30-06+Springfield.html

WildRose said:

There are far fewer choices of bullets available for the .270 than just about any of the common calibers.

More and more of the boutique bullet makers are finally giving the .270 attention but it's simply true that the choices are much more limited.

Click to expand...

Just looked at what midway usa list for bullets, .243-90, .257-49, .264-99, .277-88, .284-99, .308-276, .338-89, .358-50, .375-60, .416-27. Yes it is in the mid to lower range of bullets available, but there are still plenty and always has ben or the round would have died long ago. To say it is not a cartridge to use basted on number of bullets available is silly and if that was the best way to pick a caliber we need to stop making all of them but the 30 cal. as you can see there are far more of them made then any other.

CJS-6.5 said:

This is true. There used to be a couple options for fast twist barrels but they died. I am pushing the 145 eldx at over 3000 fps to see what it can do...but there is no really high bc bullets readily available.

Click to expand...

This is not entirely true... yes, the 6.5mm, 7mm, and .308" calibers have vast amounts of bullet options but the .277" caliber is not without options. Matrix offers two heavy (165gr/175gr), high BC options and Berger has their 170gr EOL. There are definitely options for the .277" caliber bullets out there, but you will need to reload for most of them.

CJS-6.5 said:

Your next post may want to run along the lines of...300 yrds is all I want to practice for anyway...

To that I say limit your practical hunting range to 2/3's of what you practice at. So if you want to harvest an elk at 600 you better be really good with the same rifle and load at 900.

Will you be as calm and precise when you see a trophy elk in your scope instead of a target?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately the only range I have access to is limited to 100 yards. I will have to travel 2500 miles to practice at longer ranges. I would plan to practice with hunting loads when at a longer range.

35 Whelen said:

Just looked at what midway usa list for bullets, .243-90, .257-49, .264-99, .277-88, .284-99, .308-276, .338-89, .358-50, .375-60, .416-27. Yes it is in the mid to lower range of bullets available, but there are still plenty and always has ben or the round would have died long ago. To say it is not a cartridge to use basted on number of bullets available is silly and if that was the best way to pick a caliber we need to stop making all of them but the 30 cal. as you can see there are far more of them made then any other.

Click to expand...

That's the issue. Plenty of low end bullets available but much more limited than the others in high BC offerings and especially in High BC hunting bullet offerings.

Maybe I should have been clearer but we cover this pretty often here and I was assuming, apparently errantly you were aware of that.

John Spadaro said:

Unfortunately the only range I have access to is limited to 100 yards. I will have to travel 2500 miles to practice at longer ranges. I would plan to practice with hunting loads when at a longer range.

Click to expand...

2500 miles? Wow? If you don't mind me asking where do you live?

John Spadaro said:

I already have the .223 for practice. I suspect that some combination of lighter bullet and reduced powder charge will produce a trajectory similar to the full power hunting round.

Click to expand...

Yes you're thinking right
There's ballistically similar calibers with certain loads, like 223 using 69 grain bullet with a 308 shooting a 168 bullet
30-06 might fall in there too with a165 grain
Little playing around and you'd find a match for BDC reticles etc and good practice