Why 7mm STW?

[Lefty7mmstw]

True, but why in the world would you take all the time and effort to FF brass from the 300 wby to the stw when you can simply neck and shoot 300 WBY brass to 7mm-300? No FFing involved. Simply load and shoot.

And, you can leave a little bit of a false shoulder and head space off of that to eliminate the need for the belt. Also, I won a PILE of wood in IBS 1000 comp using a "ROY"!!

What you call effort is what I call another reason for a trip to the range. I try to stay to 375h@h brass for fire forming anyway... Very robust brass in any brand I've used so far. It doesn't hurt that I have a 375h@h (a rem 700 lightweight) also...

 

[mgood]

Y'all are pretty convincing. It does sound like fun.

They are ballistically identical. I used to have a 300 weatherby and found that I could trade brass back and forth. They are identical other than the radiused shoulder of course. I would do either and they should be very close.

Yep. I tell people that my 8mm Rem Mag is halfway between a 300 Weatherby and a 340 Weatherby. Lots of them act like I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nitro 375]

Why choose the 7mm STW over other 7mm magnums?

Is it that the WSM/RSAUM and Rem Mag are too small, the RUM is too big, but the STW is just right? Why? And if so, what about the 28 Nosler?

I'm not knocking your choice. I posted here to get input from fans of this cartridge. What defines its niche? Why do you want a long, belted case?

Ok I'll play, in recent months I was reading some of Bob Hagels books. He was an interesting writer that did a lot of experimentation to say the least. Anyhow he was a big fan of the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum, [as was Warren Page] and after reading some of his data, velocities and hunting tales I thought "well hell I want one!"

Upon researching what was required with forming brass etc. I came to the conclusion that an STW was a much easier proposition. Add in the fact that I used to have an 8mm Remington Magnum and have several hundred cases stashed away that were collecting dust, well why not.

Thus far it has been a fun ride and I can only say I wish I had jumped in sooner. I really like my STW.

 

[WildRose]

Why choose the 7mm STW over other 7mm magnums?

Is it that the WSM/RSAUM and Rem Mag are too small, the RUM is too big, but the STW is just right? Why? And if so, what about the 28 Nosler?

I'm not knocking your choice. I posted here to get input from fans of this cartridge. What defines its niche? Why do you want a long, belted case?

For me it was that it was the most practical way to go to get more velocity and longer reach than I could get with my 7mm RM's that I'd grown up with.

I stayed with it because there's a point at which you gain very little velocity and pay for it in substantially more powder, blast, recoil, and shorter barrel life. I gave the 7mm Wby a hard look too but found that at the time the cost differential between the STW and WBY's factory ammo and brass was substantial.

When the Rum came along I realized that for my purposes the law of diminishing returns had kicked in. It just wasn't worth the extra cost, blast, recoil and shorter barrel life to justify owning one. Now of course it's even worse because IF you can find Rum Brass or Ammo, the cost is ridiculous.

If I had to choose between the 28 Nosler and 7mm STW starting out today I'd probably lean towards the Nosler because they are the only supplier of Brass and may remain the only maker of factory ammo for some time and that could end up really putting 28Nosler owners in a deep ugly hole at some point in the future.

As it sits now I've got a lifetime supply of brass saved up for the STW so even though I'll continue to buy some now and again just to add to the pile I'm good and even feeding 3 different STW's I'm not likely to run out anytime soon.

Hopefully Nosler won't pull a Remington and drop support for their own proprietary cartridges just when they are getting enough of a following to justify their initial investment.

As many others have said, the STW for me has been a love affair that has outlasted all of my dogs and a dozen women. I own more long guns than I'd care to mention publicly and when I absolutely need a one shot kill on something and time to make up my mind which gun I'm going to grab it will always be one of the STW's. I'll probably be buried with one of them some day HA!

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the reply.

I asked because I have an 8mm STW er, I mean an 8mm Rem Mag. (Currently shooting 200 gr AccuBonds at an advertised 3000 fps - don't have a chrono to verify that speed.)
I flip-flop between thinking "Wow, this is the coolest thing ever! I need a 7STW, and if I ever have an opportunity to hunt one of the Big 5, I could get a 416 Rem Mag. All the same case." And on alternate days I think, "Why the heck would I want this rather than a shorter, fatter, beltless cartridge that does essentially the same thing?" There's not a whole lot of talk about the 8mm mags, so I figured I'd come over here and hang out with my close cousins who are using the same case to launch 7mm projectiles.

How big a pain is the belted case when reloading? Some say it's not an issue at all. What are people's thoughts on the better efficiency of a shorter powder column? Is that splitting really fine hairs that have no practical effect on real-world hunting? I know some people claim the shorter, fatter cases won't feed as well as the smooth-cycling long, tapered cases.

Loading for a belted case is no different or more difficult than loading for a non belted case. It's also far harder to screw up your head space when handloading with belted cases than non belted cases which can be catastrophic or at least damaging to both you and your rifle.

The whole myth of the belt being some sort of boogeyman was simply dreamed up by people wanting to market non belted magnum cartridges in competing calibers.

 

[Nitro 375]

The whole myth of the belt being some sort of boogeyman was simply dreamed up by people wanting to market non belted magnum cartridges in competing calibers.


Well said sir!

 

[MudRunner2005]

For me it was that it was the most practical way to go to get more velocity and longer reach than I could get with my 7mm RM's that I'd grown up with.

I stayed with it because there's a point at which you gain very little velocity and pay for it in substantially more powder, blast, recoil, and shorter barrel life. I gave the 7mm Wby a hard look too but found that at the time the cost differential between the STW and WBY's factory ammo and brass was substantial.

When the Rum came along I realized that for my purposes the law of diminishing returns had kicked in. It just wasn't worth the extra cost, blast, recoil and shorter barrel life to justify owning one. Now of course it's even worse because IF you can find Rum Brass or Ammo, the cost is ridiculous.

If I had to choose between the 28 Nosler and 7mm STW starting out today I'd probably lean towards the Nosler because they are the only supplier of Brass and may remain the only maker of factory ammo for some time and that could end up really putting 28Nosler owners in a deep ugly hole at some point in the future.

As it sits now I've got a lifetime supply of brass saved up for the STW so even though I'll continue to buy some now and again just to add to the pile I'm good and even feeding 3 different STW's I'm not likely to run out anytime soon.

Hopefully Nosler won't pull a Remington and drop support for their own proprietary cartridges just when they are getting enough of a following to justify their initial investment.

As many others have said, the STW for me has been a love affair that has outlasted all of my dogs and a dozen women. I own more long guns than I'd care to mention publicly and when I absolutely need a one shot kill on something and time to make up my mind which gun I'm going to grab it will always be one of the STW's. I'll probably be buried with one of them some day HA!

Same here!!! And I've been saying for years that I want to be buried with my guns.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Loading for a belted case is no different or more difficult than loading for a non belted case. It's also far harder to screw up your head space when handloading with belted cases than non belted cases which can be catastrophic or at least damaging to both you and your rifle.

The whole myth of the belt being some sort of boogeyman was simply dreamed up by people wanting to market non belted magnum cartridges in competing calibers.

Yep!!! I'm so sick of hearing people talk crap about the belts as if it's a fact. It's nothing more than tabloid conjecture and beltless case designers' propaganda.

 

[WildRose]

Yep!!! I'm so sick of hearing people talk crap about the belts as if it's a fact. It's nothing more than tabloid conjecture and beltless case designers' propaganda.

Belted Magnums have been getting the job done for 105 years with literally tens of millions of guns chambered in them and they continue to do so.

It's like a guy in a big box outdoors store who once tried to convince me that I needed the newest hotrod semi auto handgun to come out, "Because the 1911 is outdated".

 

[MudRunner2005]

Belted Magnums have been getting the job done for 105 years with literally tens of millions of guns chambered in them and they continue to do so.

It's like a guy in a big box outdoors store who once tried to convince me that I needed the newest hotrod semi auto handgun to come out, "Because the 1911 is outdated".

Don't even get me started on the whole "the 1911 is 100 year old technology" crowd... Had that argument WAY too many times to even care to recall...

I've heard the same crap about Revolvers my whole life, too. First handgun I can ever recall shooting was my dad's old 1970's Ruger Single-6 stainless with the .22LR cylinder in it (he still has both the LR and Mag cylinders for it, and the original box when it bought it new). I'm most happy when I'm shooting my S&W revolvers and 1911, than I am shooting ANY of my modern "plastic" semi-auto handguns. And I have plenty of them, but there's just something about that polished steel-on-steel smoothness in function and that hefty weight to it that an L-Frame or N-Frame S&W and a 1911 have that just feels "right" in my hand. My 6" model 686 .357 Mag is my all-time favorite to shoot. It's the one I load for the most. It just shoots like a cadillac.

 

[jasonco]

Ok I'll play, in recent months I was reading some of Bob Hagels books. He was an interesting writer that did a lot of experimentation to say the least. Anyhow he was a big fan of the 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum, [as was Warren Page] and after reading some of his data, velocities and hunting tales I thought "well hell I want one!"

Upon researching what was required with forming brass etc. I came to the conclusion that an STW was a much easier proposition. Add in the fact that I used to have an 8mm Remington Magnum and have several hundred cases stashed away that were collecting dust, well why not.

Thus far it has been a fun ride and I can only say I wish I had jumped in sooner. I really like my STW.

I have about the same story after my second 7RM, in the early 90's. I found the Bob Hagel book Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter, and it changed my hunting life. I too wanted a 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum and came to the same conclusion of cost and effort for it. I then read about Layne Simpson's cartridges on the FL 8RM case and found what I was looking for! I bought a Clymer reamer (Also a 358 Shooting times Alaskan) and had my smithy build me one on a Savage 110 I had, with a 27" Shilen heavy contour, with the mag opened up to 3.875" and it's still a shooter this day. Soon to be finally adding a brake. After about 20, 175 SGK under a full charge of H5010, you start to feel it! And everything that I have taken with it is DEAD RIGHT THERE, tracking skills not needed.

 

[Nitro 375]

I have about the same story after my second 7RM, in the early 90's. I found the Bob Hagel book Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter, and it changed my hunting life. I too wanted a 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum and came to the same conclusion of cost and effort for it. I then read about Layne Simpson's cartridges on the FL 8RM case and found what I was looking for! I bought a Clymer reamer (Also a 358 Shooting times Alaskan) and had my smithy build me one on a Savage 110 I had, with a 27" Shilen heavy contour, with the mag opened up to 3.875" and it's still a shooter this day. Soon to be finally adding a brake. After about 20, 175 SGK under a full charge of H5010, you start to feel it! And everything that I have taken with it is DEAD RIGHT THERE, tracking skills not needed.

That is awesome, love it. I may have to try some H5010. Hagel was definitely ahead of his time in many ways. My wife bought me that same book plus another of his for Christmas. He was definitely old school in the sense of speaking right out and reporting the facts with no sugar coating or concerns of anyone's feelings, I miss that. He was also very much into trying and testing the latest things and reporting on them. I loved the chapter on temperature and velocity variations. And this in the mid 1970's? Elmer Keith is one of my favorites too (who doesn't love Elmer?) but he tended to find something that worked (yes he experimented a ton too) and stick with it, and that's ok, not a thing wrong there. Hagel was always pushing the envelope and really embraced the idea of the controlled expanding bullets. I think he would be pretty pleased with the situation today with the slow powders, hi tech machining and high B.C. bullets, laser range finders, etc.

Oh and I happen to know the man that had Clymer make the first three reamers in what became the 7mm STW. He told me the story recently and I had to laugh. It's a great round and we live in a very good time of technological advances in the shooting sports.I feel very lucky.

 

[jasonco]

@Nitro 375. H5010, there might be a can here or there? I still have 5lb of it from an 8lb lot when I started load development of my 7STW. It is a bit temperature sensitive, but I settled on a hunt/1000 yard load of 80gr at a "tame" 3100 +/- fps at CO altitude, that can be safe in summer and not to slow in the fall.
I got some of the H50BMG loaded for testing in new 8RM cases, with the Berger 180 Hunting for load testing, ready to go down range. The 160gr Nosler partition with H5010 gives awesome results. H1000 and the 140 Ballistic Tip, at a relative mild load in my tube, @3400fps is a laser. I tried the 100gr Sierra Varminter once and only once, they never made it to the target...vaporized.
I'v had a 7RUM and it was past the point of diminishing returns and just plain violent to shoot with all bullet weights?!
So yeah, the 7STW is an awesome 7mm cartridge, that get's it done without even making a sweat I think.

I did recently switch to the 6.5mm in Creedmoor form and now I'm in need of a 6.5STW.....gun)

 

[MudRunner2005]

That is awesome, love it. I may have to try some H5010. Hagel was definitely ahead of his time in many ways. My wife bought me that same book plus another of his for Christmas. He was definitely old school in the sense of speaking right out and reporting the facts with no sugar coating or concerns of anyone's feelings, I miss that. He was also very much into trying and testing the latest things and reporting on them. I loved the chapter on temperature and velocity variations. And this in the mid 1970's? Elmer Keith is one of my favorites too (who doesn't love Elmer?) but he tended to find something that worked (yes he experimented a ton too) and stick with it, and that's ok, not a thing wrong there. Hagel was always pushing the envelope and really embraced the idea of the controlled expanding bullets. I think he would be pretty pleased with the situation today with the slow powders, hi tech machining and high B.C. bullets, laser range finders, etc.

Oh and I happen to know the man that had Clymer make the first three reamers in what became the 7mm STW. He told me the story recently and I had to laugh. It's a great round and we live in a very good time of technological advances in the shooting sports.I feel very lucky.

You know Layne Simpson? He was the man who created the 7mm STW, and Kenny Jarrett was the first person to ever build a rifle in 7mm STW (for Layne).