Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

[THEIS]

How many Orca cases are there,

Hello,

Basically none yet..we are still in "design" phase. We intend to change to bolt face since it handles BMG primers. We are also still in "research" phase in regards to whether we neck down to .375 or .338...But that all depends on finding slower propellant and running everything through the universal receiver setup with copper crushers for pressure testing.

We already have the 330gr polymer encased tungsten .338 projectile so I personally am hoping we can go with it.

Thanks,
THEIS

 

[hubel458]

Who is making cases and

Have you checked to see if you can get the Ginex 6,53-0.70 primers.

If base is about .690" to .700" those will be better than bmg primers, Ed

 

[THEIS]

Have you checked to see if you can get the Ginex 6,53-0.70 primers.

If base is about .690" to .700" those will be better than bmg primers, Ed

Hello,

We are going to have Bruce make them for us. They are significantly heavier than the other 585 cases since he made the Orca from BMG cup. The 585 Orca is his design (No need for us to reinvent the wheel per say), we are just modifying it to meet our International Governmental needs.

Have you had good luck with consistency in regards to flash rate and actual flash temperature of those primers?

When we tested them at RUAG in February we got inconsistent flash temperatures and rates.

RWS 50BMG primers were the most consistent flash temp and flash rates we tested.

Until improvement on consistency is shown in the Ginex 6,53-0.70 primers we will utilize RWS 50BMG.

THEIS

 

[hubel458]

I have no Ginex, would like to get some to test..

As far as bmg size primers, I use them in the 416 HSM and best ones are

some RWS I have, little more consistent, a little tamer, little less power than the

CCI magnum ones, and the best for my longer, slightly smaller diameter

than a bmg, 416 HSM case.

About the Orca case, and cases of that base size. ...with him using BMG size

brass cup he could make a 416 case much longer like I would want, if I

win a lottery to pay for it. And if we made case a lot longer with thinner and

springier sidewalls, then cases wouldn't stick at 70k psi, which they will do

if made with too thick of sides, unless they have more taper than we want.

Thanks for the info. That is big help..Ed

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Hello,

We are going to have Bruce make them for us. They are significantly heavier than the other 585 cases since he made the Orca from BMG cup. The 585 Orca is his design (No need for us to reinvent the wheel per say), we are just modifying it to meet our International Governmental needs.
...

THEIS

I wish Bruce had a website that showed this stuff.

Any chance you could give some dimensions? Base diameter, rim diameter. Everything else I can get from pictures.

Even better would be to get a case. Any suggestions on how I can do that without buying a 55 gallon drum?

 

[THEIS]

I wish Bruce had a website that showed this stuff.

Any chance you could give some dimensions? Base diameter, rim diameter. Everything else I can get from pictures.

Even better would be to get a case. Any suggestions on how I can do that without buying a 55 gallon drum?

Hello Fred,

At this exact moment I cannot get measurements as I am traveling to try and find a slower propellant solution.

I do know that with BMG boltface, there would be a little bit of rim beyond the case base diameter that would possibly require us to redesign our magazine for proper feeding.

............To 375 or Heavy 338..........I cannot decide on that until we get propellant options lined out and tested.

Thanks,
THEIS

 

[THEIS]

And if we made case a lot longer with thinner and
springier sidewalls, then cases wouldn't stick at 70k psi, which they will do
if made with too thick of sides, unless they have more taper than we want.

Hello Ed, That statement is not completely true at all!!

"Could" cases stick at 70k..yes; "They will do"...no!

There has been lots learned over the years from being required to submit rifles for "Proof Testing" by Government entities in which we sell to. Those "proof" rifles are the actual rifles being imported into their respective country and not some built up test rifles.

These rifles are required to perform with a proof load of 1.5x psi of operating pressures. We have never had a bolt lift problem or stuck case.

We also have been required by International Government entities to perform squib load test of the rifles. In which we are required to force a M33 projectile 4" from the muzzle and fire a full load behind it. Even during those test the extraction was perfect with no sticking brass....now it did break our muzzle brake into 2 separate pieces though.

Thanks,
THEIS

 

[hubel458]

What I meant by too thick is the cases made like 577 t-rex and

585 African, because they used cups for big bmg cases and extra material

was put in sides and we have made them stick at lower pressures

like 60-65k and they were not even necked to 416, 375, etc..

Most of cases you had gov test were not built like those two mentioned,

they were thinner like my 585 which is made from medium cup.

Also the 375 terminator listed in this forum, 585 nyati, and its wildcats being

talked about elsewhere on here, are made from medium brass cup..Ed

 

[hubel458]

More info-- I have trex, african, others made with thick sides, and with

sides over twice as thick as our 585 and nyatis, and thicker most the way

up, and they are soft in the sides.So when made too thick relative to the case dia,

the drawing process does not work harden cases enough to make top tensile strength....

We have had guys stick those cases with wrong extruded powder

that I don't like to use at 50-55K. Ed

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

O ok, I misunderstood what you were saying, sorry about that.

The GREAT thing with having brass manufactured commercially instead of "modifying" individually is that we get to do things to that the average person just does not have the equipment to do, such as:

1. We can add another step in the process that will work harden the brass to our liking.
2. Since the Orca pictured was basically hand made since 3.5" length is max he can run on the regular header. Anything longer has to go to the BIG header; which can go to 20mm....So since we are going to have to go to that BIG header anyways; we are going to lengthen the case..BUT again....I am searching for slower propellant than 20N29.

THEIS

 

[hubel458]

I think he can run the draws in the header up to 3.6'',

Then when he necks them on the carasel, they add more

to be 3.625" or so. . Does anyone have the real slow military ball

powders over there like we have from surplus dealers here.

There is about 20 of ball powders real slow..,


About the cups for brass, the big ones are about twice as

heavy as medium so it is real easy to get sides too thick.

At that case size , about .700" base they got to draw way out , but most shops

have to make new draw rods, Like the inside of the trex case, at .688" is not

hardly any bigger than inside of our 585 case or nyati case .

With bmg case, they put lot of extra at the immediate base, but then thin the

sides out quick, so they get worked for strength, and gives sides more taper

for easy release of cases from link belts and the mg chambers..Ed

 

[hubel458]

Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very,very, similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

I understand that there was 2-3 times as many guys wanting
to try the 2 mile shoot at Whittington than there was openings for.
So check out Tonopah, NV 2-Mile Match Aug 24 - 26, 2017
Dates are August 24 to 26 (site zeros on the 23rd)..Ed

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Congrats to Adam for 3 consecutive hits at 4750 yards with his 416B.

https://www.facebook.com/worldslongestshotchallenge/

Does anyone know if any 375HE or 375 Mercenary shooters making appearance at this event?
THEIS

 

[M1A2 Tanker]

I am an avid ELR shooter and have developed a .338 Edge that has a confirmed center mass hit at 3660 yards. See my video at YouTube 1 and 2 mile marksmanship challenge October 2016.. the 375 LM looks like a larger variant of a good ELR cartridge but I believe a .338 Edge with a 36" barrel finished and a 1:8 twist rate can shoot a 300 grain Berger in the transonic zone with as much accuracy and precision if there is such a thing in transonic as the .375 LM. I will be challenging myself and next year if all works out be shooting the new barrel next year at Raton New Mexico. I will also like to go to Texas and shoot out to 5k with the same set up.